Is this a pirate site?

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Krystian Galaj

Concepts of right and wrong are great - when you're teaching a child which can't yet understand or be interested in precise, real explanation. They're always needed for that, but at some point in life a man is expected to stop reasoning with those.

Are you saying that all concepts of right and wrong are completely arbitrary? If so, I would have to disagree. Certainly many modes of behavior vary from culture to culture, but I believe that there are certain standards that transcend cultures; among these are the proscriptions against murder and stealing from members of your tribe; and as civilization advances, I believe it to be a natural and evolutionary step to become ever more inclusive in terms of those who are included in the tribe. Even among individual tribes certain expectations of behavior exist such that when those expectations are violated, retribution is exacted.

As for children; we can learn much from them in this regard. Early on, the majority come to recognize the importance of fair-play. How many times have you heard a child declare, "That's not fair!" in response to a slight? Perhaps the Unitarian-Universalist minister Robert Fulghum had it right when he said "All I Really Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten."

Originally Posted by Krystian Galaj

Ethics are like esperanto - trying to copy, analyze and adapt to reality, but really artificial. Some people speak esperanto, but it never really caught on. That doesn't mean each society doesn't have its own rules, only that they can rarely be described with simple words, and so speaking of the world in such general terms as ethics is a hopeless simplification.

Esperanto is perhaps the best failed idea in all of the 20th century. Personally, I wish it had succeeded worldwide, but it was probably doomed from the start; if only because of religious opposition to the idea.

Originally Posted by Krystian Galaj

Justice, justifications, courts and legalities are a way to show who's in control without unnecessary bloodshed, as always.

Just my $0.02

And I thank you for it. And now, you have mine.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

You lose. PM me for my paypal details. I'd say "took" my idea.

Check's in the mail!

[tompe]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

Is honest a color?

And calling copyright infringement is dishonest. It is also dishonest to call murder theft. I assume that was your point.

[Nakor]

To those calling it theft, do you think that making and giving away free counterfeit brand name bags that the giver-awayer (while we're making up words... ) tells us are copies is theft? No, it's counterfeit, which is one type of copyright infringement. Nobody has a problem with the word counterfeit.

Now, if for whatever reason you feel the word piracy isn't strong enough (perhaps only because there are people out there who seem to think piracy is great), I could see my way around calling a file downloaded via someone distributing it illegally 'counterfeit.' It's halfyway accurate (in that it's an identical copy of the real thing... but it's not really designed to deceive the recipient) at least. But piracy is no more theft than making a counterfeit bag is, no matter how heinous you feel it is.

Theft is defined as: the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Moejoe, some of us geezers don't mind kids on the lawn (and our brain cells have totally ossified....)

LOL I was making a sweeping generalisation. There's plenty of people over 40 who 'get it', but the problem is there aren't enough of them to shout down the ageing and clueless masters of culture at the moment. Not that there's any need. All these arguments are null and void because the genie is out of the bottle and nobody can put it back inside. The copyright=theft people will die off and become less vocal, the younger generations will find their own ways outside of any meddling by the older generations. The drive towards a totally free culture is unstoppable.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

the younger generations will find their own ways outside of any meddling by the older generations.

And, I bet, become insufferably conservative in the process

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by TGS

And, I bet, become insufferably conservative in the process

That's the saddest part. It always happens. The generation so vocal now about copyrights and profits and all that stuff that's holding culture back, were, in many cases, the youth of a time that gave us women's liberation, the civil rights movement and free love. In the years afterwards they started more wars, deprived more people of freedom and became more conservative than any of the generations previous. What a horrible turnaround.

I'm wondering what my generation (the cassette generation) will be moaning about in ten or fifteen years from now. I have a feeling our unfounded concerns will be focused more on privacy than copying.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Moejoe, the linky things don't work....WAA...

Corrected, it was meant to be bolded, not underlined oops

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

That's the saddest part. It always happens. The generation so vocal now about copyrights and profits and all that stuff that's holding culture back, were, in many cases, the youth of a time that gave us women's liberation, the civil rights movement and free love. In the years afterwards they started more wars, deprived more people of freedom and became more conservative than any of the generations previous. What a horrible turnaround.

I'm wondering what my generation (the cassette generation) will be moaning about in ten or fifteen years from now. I have a feeling our unfounded concerns will be focused more on privacy than copying.

Sadly, my vision of the Macro-Cosmic All, sees them more concerned with keeping a roof over their head, and food on the table, as the Great Leveling finally reaches fruition...

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Sadly, my vision of the Macro-Cosmic All, sees them more concerned with keeping a roof over their head, and food on the table, as the Great Leveling finally reaches fruition...

Or as Kenny says "It all evens out."

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Or as Kenny says "It all evens out."

except for the odds.....they went to Adrian's bar....

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

That's the saddest part. It always happens. The generation so vocal now about copyrights and profits and all that stuff that's holding culture back, were, in many cases, the youth of a time that gave us women's liberation, the civil rights movement and free love. In the years afterwards they started more wars, deprived more people of freedom and became more conservative than any of the generations previous. What a horrible turnaround.

I'm wondering what my generation (the cassette generation) will be moaning about in ten or fifteen years from now. I have a feeling our unfounded concerns will be focused more on privacy than copying.

Oh there's so much to moan about, in my day no one was strip searched at school or had their at home actions video recorded by school officials, there was at least lip service payed to privacy, no one called me a thief if I made a mix tape, you figured out how to save princess zelda without a guidebook, thieves were people who took your stuff away forever not people who made copies of it, American Idol was called star search and got the crappy ratings it deserved and there was no such thing as fox news, now get off my lawn.

Back on topic another thread suggested the word booklegging, I tend to agree that such a word would be acceptable to anyone who isn't just astroturfing around here.

[PKFFW]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

You lose. PM me for my paypal details. I'd say "took" my idea.

And for anyone who believes DF would really use the word "took" in the heat of the moment I have a bridge in Sydney Australia for sale at a great price!



Cheers,
PKFFW
P.S: This post in no way indicates my willingness to enter into any argument about whether copyright infringement is legally defined the same as theft.

[PKFFW]

Originally Posted by Krystian Galaj

Concepts of right and wrong are great - when you're teaching a child which can't yet understand or be interested in precise, real explanation. They're always needed for that, but at some point in life a man is expected to stop reasoning with those.

Whilst I agree there are situations where the concepts of right and wrong are not relevant or necessary or in fact should be put aside for some reason, I find it amazing you would say a man should be expected "stop reasoning with those" simply as a matter of course.

Without getting into a debate about what is right and wrong, cultural differences and "lesser of two evil" type situations, surely in any matter where the concepts of right and wrong matter it is the mark of a reasonable person to do what is right if at all possible.(at the very least as "right" is defined for that person)

I do not think there should ever come a time when a person should be expected to "stop reasoning" with those ideas. George W Bush and his ilk are perfect examples of people who have no regard for right and wrong, preferring instead to reason by what is best for them and their wallets.

Cheers,
PKFFW

[PKFFW]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

This is all very simple to figure out, and it has nothing to do with copyright or IP. It's a generational conflict. The same baby-boomers that screwed over the younger generations (and will continue to do so in the coming years) don't have any music to complain about like their parents did (popular music now being as threatening as yoghurt), so they shift all that age-rage over to IP and file-sharing. Young people, being young and excited by new things, don't see any problem with copying. The *cough* older generations need something to complain about, then you add a little physical nostalgia into the mix, and the copyright=theft argument becomes the digital equivalent of 'get off my lawn'.

So don't worry If you're under 40 and you can rub two brain cells together to start an idea, the world is yours. The baby boomers will die off soon enough, the lawns will grow, and sometime in the future we'll all have to mow them too.

And at some point in the future something that matters to you and that you care about will be trampled under foot as being meaningless and you will be the one complaining.

It's the circle of life.

Cheers,
PKFFW