Limit to the number of MP3 files?

dhbailey · 03-30-2007, 04:58 PM

I have found out several things, in trying to settle into the Reader this week:

1) there seems to be a limit to the number of MP3 files which the Reader can read from a memory card. I put 738 files on a 4GB SD card, and the Reader says 400 files next to Audio. Moving to the 400th song and then trying to move to the next song moves back to the first song, so there's obviously a 400 song limit.

2) the Reader plays the music sequentially, not a random order, which will get pretty monotonous after a while. Perhaps a future system update will include a random playback possibility. Or maybe I've just missed something but I don't think so.

3) I thought that perhaps the limit to 400 songs was because of the stated limit of 2GB on SD cards, compared to the stated limit of 4GB on Memory Sticks so I bought a 4GB memory stick and copied the MP3 files over to it and the Reader still only shows 400 songs.

4) I removed the extra 738 MP3 files which weren't being recognized, leaving 400 song files on the SD card. BUT, when I put the SD card in the Reader, it now shows that there are only 242 songs. Curious!

So it seems that the playback of MP3 files, which I knew from the start to be weak, is weaker than I had thought, and I am very curious as to why it is only showing a certain number of files.

I'm going to check and make sure that they all have the necessary data in the song name field of the MP3 files, to be sure I haven't messed up there.

I'll report back when/if I learn anything new.

If anybody has any ideas of why all this is happening, I'll be happy to read them!

The quality of the playback is just fine, it's only the file-system stuff I'm miffed about.

dhbailey · 03-30-2007, 06:10 PM

Replying to my own message I thought I'd share further experiences:

1) I checked the mp3 tags on all the files and they are fine;
2) I renamed all the files because I had initially named them with the track number and title and thought that might be causing some sort of glitch;
3) after renaming the 738 files which are on the memory stick, which had previously shown there were 400 song files, the Reader now tells me there are 327 audio files present. Go figure!

What am I doing wrong?

LaughingVulcan · 03-30-2007, 07:08 PM

I haven't used the MP3 player at all yet; I may start doing so for podcasts-only. But take everything I say with a grain of salt since I haven't used it at all yet.

Anyhow, wasn't there a limit to 2GB period before the upgrade? Maybe there's some kind of glitch related to the MP3 storage system over 2GB - or some other kind of upper limit to MP3 storage in sheer file size. How much memory do those 242 or 327 files take up? Are they remotely similar in overall file size?

ETA: Are any of the songs not making it outside the MP3 specs? From the Op Guide: 32-320kbps bit rate (doesn't say that variable bit rate supported,) frequency 22.05 or 44.1 kHz. I don't see anything in the Op Guide about a maximum storage limit on MP3s, but it still wouldn't surprise me if there were, or a glitch as above.

scottcstoness · 03-30-2007, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhbailey

Replying to my own message I thought I'd share further experiences:

1) I checked the mp3 tags on all the files and they are fine;
2) I renamed all the files because I had initially named them with the track number and title and thought that might be causing some sort of glitch;
3) after renaming the 738 files which are on the memory stick, which had previously shown there were 400 song files, the Reader now tells me there are 327 audio files present. Go figure!

What am I doing wrong?

I have no idea what you are doing wrong, but since the playback is sequential by track title anyway, I used some internet freeware (easy audio cutter) to create a few CD-length tracks. I have tracks that are entire albums, or in the case of classical, entire symphonies -- makes the music managable in terms of finding what you want to play, and you are unlikely to run into any kind of hidden track limit when those 700 tracks become 50 :-)

Cheers,

ScS

Liviu_5 · 03-30-2007, 08:05 PM

Not sure if that is your problem since I encountered in a different context (on my mmc Nokia 770 card, and heard people complaining on mp3 players too) but many times there is a limit on the number of files read under the root folder on a card.

Make several folders and put your mp3 files in them not in the root folder and check then.

Leaping Gnome · 03-30-2007, 09:15 PM

I wonder if you take a pretty short MP3 and just name it 500 unique names so it's under 2gb if the Reader would still limit to 400 or would show 500.

Moonraker · 03-30-2007, 09:44 PM

I think this problem is related to the FAT system on the memory card.
I don't know the figures offhand but I thought you could only have 512 files on the root for a FAT 16 system.
If you put your files into folders you can store many more.
I also think the file names will affect the number of files that can be read.
Long file names = less files read.

I don't have a Sony Reader so I don't know if it can read FAT32 which does not have the limitations of FAT 16.

dhbailey · 03-30-2007, 10:47 PM

It's not the number of files in a single folder, because I just reorganized them all into separate folders, so there are no files in the root directory, and each folder has no more than 30 files in it, and it still reads well under 400 files.

I think it may have to do with the file which the reader writes to the memory card under the Sony/Cache folder.

I'm going to look into combining the songs into longer, CD-length single files (since playback is sequential anyway).

I'll try that and see how many songs I can fit on the Reader and be able to play them.

I'll keep you all posted.

HarryT · 03-31-2007, 02:58 AM

To be honest, I think the ability to play MP3 files was rather an "afterthought" that some marketing wizard told Sony that the Reader had to have. It has many problems (eg, there's no "stop" - just a "pause" - and it's very easy to inadvertantly leave it playing and drain the battery flat).

Personally, I use the Reader for reading, and my iPod for music and audio books. Each is the perfect tool for the job. I know I can play MP3 files on my Reader and read eBooks on my iPod, but that's not what either was really designed for.

NatCh · 04-03-2007, 03:20 PM

Well, I'm stumped, myself.

One thing I'd suggest is, can you try the same thing with a smaller card, maybe? Like LaughingVulcan, I remember an 'official' 2 GB limit, too, so I'd be interested to now if you see something similar on a smaller card.

I think you're the first to do an actual file inventory on a 4 GB, so the reports of them working, might simply be a matter of us not realizing they were only partly working.

RWood · 04-03-2007, 09:41 PM

There is no known limit that I found.

I loaded a 2 GB San Disk SD card with 740 mp3 files and inserted it while the Reader was on. In less than 2 minutes the wait arrows faded and and the Audio section reported 740 songs. So far so good.

I then removed the card and added another 321 mp3s. After reinserting the Audio read 1,061 songs. To test if they would play, I played a sample of them. No problem in playing them. I then removed the card and deleted the files.

dhbailey · 04-04-2007, 04:46 AM

I'm going to try it on the 2GB Sandisk SD cards -- I have great frustration with the 4GB SD card (I know it didn't say they were supported ) as well as with the 4GB Memory Stick, which the documentation does say IS supported.

I did find that things worked better when I used the Connect software to load the mp3 files onto the card, and I also discovered a couple of corrupted files which may have been part of the original frustration, but even with those missing the most I can get is 2GB of audio files before the computer tells me "device not available."

I think that anything above 2GB, even on memory sticks, may be limited to books only.

I'll keep trying.

Thank you for your experiments to help me out!

dhbailey · 04-04-2007, 11:41 AM

Well, on my 2GB Sandisk UltraII SD card, I copied 595 MP3 files. The Sony Reader tells me I have 438 audio files. This is what I've been running into right along -- Windows Explorer showing that I have a certain number of files on the memory card (apparently it doesn't matter which size/format of card I have) and the Reader telling me a different number.

I've put them all in the Sony Reader / Audio folder. Are you putting them into other folders? I've tried that and it never tells me an accurate count. It tells me an accurate count of the number of books I have on the memory card, and it also tells me an accurate number of MP3 files when I have below 331.

I'm about to give up on it, unless someone tells me a different folder structure which works for them.

Thanks!

RWood · 04-04-2007, 02:03 PM

My folder structure was straight from my music server. In the root was the artist as a folder, below that were the albums each in their own folder, and in each of those folders were the mp3 files.

For "fun" I copied a playlist and it was ignored.

Now I did all of my card loading outside of CONNECT, straight to the card.

You mentioned earlier that there were a few ill formed mp3s that did not show up but the number that you are showing vs what you loaded seems too far afield to be ill formed files alone. Could it be that the tags of the files are not correct or that many resolve to one as when the artist and track are both blank? Could it be a problem with v2 or v3 tagging of mp3s?

dhbailey · 04-04-2007, 02:39 PM

Good ideas -- I checked that and there were a few with blank ID tag fields, but not enough empty tags to account for the wide discrepancy in numbers. All my MP3 files are either v2 tagged or not tagged -- I don't have any v3 tags.

Since you have used a folder structure based in the root directory of your card, I'll try building such a thing and see if it makes a difference -- I know I'll get things right eventually.

And thank you for telling me how you loaded the card -- I did seem to have better luck through Connect, but never quite accurate counts. I'll try the smaller number of files in many different folders. Someone had mentioned that earlier in this thread and I had tried it, but perhaps my folder structure wasn't correct or I still had too many mp3 files in a single folder.

I'll keep plugging away -- thanks for your insights!

03-30-2007, 04:58 PM	#1
dhbailey Guru Posts: 604 Karma: 733 Join Date: Mar 2007 Device: HP iPAQ211 / PRS 500, 700 and 505	Limit to the number of MP3 files? I have found out several things, in trying to settle into the Reader this week: 1) there seems to be a limit to the number of MP3 files which the Reader can read from a memory card. I put 738 files on a 4GB SD card, and the Reader says 400 files next to Audio. Moving to the 400th song and then trying to move to the next song moves back to the first song, so there's obviously a 400 song limit. 2) the Reader plays the music sequentially, not a random order, which will get pretty monotonous after a while. Perhaps a future system update will include a random playback possibility. Or maybe I've just missed something but I don't think so. 3) I thought that perhaps the limit to 400 songs was because of the stated limit of 2GB on SD cards, compared to the stated limit of 4GB on Memory Sticks so I bought a 4GB memory stick and copied the MP3 files over to it and the Reader still only shows 400 songs. 4) I removed the extra 738 MP3 files which weren't being recognized, leaving 400 song files on the SD card. BUT, when I put the SD card in the Reader, it now shows that there are only 242 songs. Curious! So it seems that the playback of MP3 files, which I knew from the start to be weak, is weaker than I had thought, and I am very curious as to why it is only showing a certain number of files. I'm going to check and make sure that they all have the necessary data in the song name field of the MP3 files, to be sure I haven't messed up there. I'll report back when/if I learn anything new. If anybody has any ideas of why all this is happening, I'll be happy to read them! The quality of the playback is just fine, it's only the file-system stuff I'm miffed about.

03-30-2007, 07:08 PM	#3
LaughingVulcan Technophile Posts: 204 Karma: 617 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Land of Lincoln Device: PRS-650 Sony, Nook Simpletouch, more legacy gear than I can remember	I haven't used the MP3 player at all yet; I may start doing so for podcasts-only. But take everything I say with a grain of salt since I haven't used it at all yet. Anyhow, wasn't there a limit to 2GB period before the upgrade? Maybe there's some kind of glitch related to the MP3 storage system over 2GB - or some other kind of upper limit to MP3 storage in sheer file size. How much memory do those 242 or 327 files take up? Are they remotely similar in overall file size? ETA: Are any of the songs not making it outside the MP3 specs? From the Op Guide: 32-320kbps bit rate (doesn't say that variable bit rate supported,) frequency 22.05 or 44.1 kHz. I don't see anything in the Op Guide about a maximum storage limit on MP3s, but it still wouldn't surprise me if there were, or a glitch as above. Last edited by LaughingVulcan; 03-30-2007 at 07:16 PM.

03-30-2007, 09:44 PM	#7
Moonraker Addict Posts: 314 Karma: 1002965 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Device: ILiad. Gen 3, PocketBook 360, Kobo Aura HD, Kindle Oasis 2	I think this problem is related to the FAT system on the memory card. I don't know the figures offhand but I thought you could only have 512 files on the root for a FAT 16 system. If you put your files into folders you can store many more. I also think the file names will affect the number of files that can be read. Long file names = less files read. I don't have a Sony Reader so I don't know if it can read FAT32 which does not have the limitations of FAT 16. Last edited by Moonraker; 03-30-2007 at 10:03 PM.

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03-30-2007, 06:10 PM	#2
dhbailey Guru Posts: 604 Karma: 733 Join Date: Mar 2007 Device: HP iPAQ211 / PRS 500, 700 and 505	Replying to my own message I thought I'd share further experiences: 1) I checked the mp3 tags on all the files and they are fine; 2) I renamed all the files because I had initially named them with the track number and title and thought that might be causing some sort of glitch; 3) after renaming the 738 files which are on the memory stick, which had previously shown there were 400 song files, the Reader now tells me there are 327 audio files present. Go figure! What am I doing wrong?

03-30-2007, 08:05 PM	#5
Liviu_5 Books and more books Posts: 917 Karma: 69499 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: White Plains, NY, USA Device: Nook Color, Itouch, Nokia770, Sony 650, Sony 700(dead), Ebk(given)	Not sure if that is your problem since I encountered in a different context (on my mmc Nokia 770 card, and heard people complaining on mp3 players too) but many times there is a limit on the number of files read under the root folder on a card. Make several folders and put your mp3 files in them not in the root folder and check then.

03-30-2007, 09:15 PM	#6
Leaping Gnome Evangelist Posts: 490 Karma: 1641 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Louisville Device: Sony Reader PRS-500	I wonder if you take a pretty short MP3 and just name it 500 unique names so it's under 2gb if the Reader would still limit to 400 or would show 500.

03-30-2007, 10:47 PM	#8
dhbailey Guru Posts: 604 Karma: 733 Join Date: Mar 2007 Device: HP iPAQ211 / PRS 500, 700 and 505	It's not the number of files in a single folder, because I just reorganized them all into separate folders, so there are no files in the root directory, and each folder has no more than 30 files in it, and it still reads well under 400 files. I think it may have to do with the file which the reader writes to the memory card under the Sony/Cache folder. I'm going to look into combining the songs into longer, CD-length single files (since playback is sequential anyway). I'll try that and see how many songs I can fit on the Reader and be able to play them. I'll keep you all posted.

03-31-2007, 02:58 AM	#9
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	To be honest, I think the ability to play MP3 files was rather an "afterthought" that some marketing wizard told Sony that the Reader had to have. It has many problems (eg, there's no "stop" - just a "pause" - and it's very easy to inadvertantly leave it playing and drain the battery flat). Personally, I use the Reader for reading, and my iPod for music and audio books. Each is the perfect tool for the job. I know I can play MP3 files on my Reader and read eBooks on my iPod, but that's not what either was really designed for.

04-03-2007, 03:20 PM	#10
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Well, I'm stumped, myself. One thing I'd suggest is, can you try the same thing with a smaller card, maybe? Like LaughingVulcan, I remember an 'official' 2 GB limit, too, so I'd be interested to now if you see something similar on a smaller card. I think you're the first to do an actual file inventory on a 4 GB, so the reports of them working, might simply be a matter of us not realizing they were only partly working.

04-03-2007, 09:41 PM	#11
RWood Technogeezer Posts: 7,233 Karma: 1601464 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Device: Sony PRS-500	There is no known limit that I found. I loaded a 2 GB San Disk SD card with 740 mp3 files and inserted it while the Reader was on. In less than 2 minutes the wait arrows faded and and the Audio section reported 740 songs. So far so good. I then removed the card and added another 321 mp3s. After reinserting the Audio read 1,061 songs. To test if they would play, I played a sample of them. No problem in playing them. I then removed the card and deleted the files.

04-04-2007, 04:46 AM	#12
dhbailey Guru Posts: 604 Karma: 733 Join Date: Mar 2007 Device: HP iPAQ211 / PRS 500, 700 and 505	I'm going to try it on the 2GB Sandisk SD cards -- I have great frustration with the 4GB SD card (I know it didn't say they were supported ) as well as with the 4GB Memory Stick, which the documentation does say IS supported. I did find that things worked better when I used the Connect software to load the mp3 files onto the card, and I also discovered a couple of corrupted files which may have been part of the original frustration, but even with those missing the most I can get is 2GB of audio files before the computer tells me "device not available." I think that anything above 2GB, even on memory sticks, may be limited to books only. I'll keep trying. Thank you for your experiments to help me out!

04-04-2007, 11:41 AM	#13
dhbailey Guru Posts: 604 Karma: 733 Join Date: Mar 2007 Device: HP iPAQ211 / PRS 500, 700 and 505	Well, on my 2GB Sandisk UltraII SD card, I copied 595 MP3 files. The Sony Reader tells me I have 438 audio files. This is what I've been running into right along -- Windows Explorer showing that I have a certain number of files on the memory card (apparently it doesn't matter which size/format of card I have) and the Reader telling me a different number. I've put them all in the Sony Reader / Audio folder. Are you putting them into other folders? I've tried that and it never tells me an accurate count. It tells me an accurate count of the number of books I have on the memory card, and it also tells me an accurate number of MP3 files when I have below 331. I'm about to give up on it, unless someone tells me a different folder structure which works for them. Thanks!

04-04-2007, 02:03 PM	#14
RWood Technogeezer Posts: 7,233 Karma: 1601464 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Device: Sony PRS-500	My folder structure was straight from my music server. In the root was the artist as a folder, below that were the albums each in their own folder, and in each of those folders were the mp3 files. For "fun" I copied a playlist and it was ignored. Now I did all of my card loading outside of CONNECT, straight to the card. You mentioned earlier that there were a few ill formed mp3s that did not show up but the number that you are showing vs what you loaded seems too far afield to be ill formed files alone. Could it be that the tags of the files are not correct or that many resolve to one as when the artist and track are both blank? Could it be a problem with v2 or v3 tagging of mp3s?

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04-04-2007, 02:39 PM	#15
dhbailey Guru Posts: 604 Karma: 733 Join Date: Mar 2007 Device: HP iPAQ211 / PRS 500, 700 and 505	Good ideas -- I checked that and there were a few with blank ID tag fields, but not enough empty tags to account for the wide discrepancy in numbers. All my MP3 files are either v2 tagged or not tagged -- I don't have any v3 tags. Since you have used a folder structure based in the root directory of your card, I'll try building such a thing and see if it makes a difference -- I know I'll get things right eventually. And thank you for telling me how you loaded the card -- I did seem to have better luck through Connect, but never quite accurate counts. I'll try the smaller number of files in many different folders. Someone had mentioned that earlier in this thread and I had tried it, but perhaps my folder structure wasn't correct or I still had too many mp3 files in a single folder. I'll keep plugging away -- thanks for your insights!