Secrets of Indie Success

[davidwfleming]

Like speaking engagements or paid advertisements on Kindle Nation, Goodreads, etc.?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by davidwfleming

Like speaking engagements or paid advertisements on Kindle Nation, Goodreads, etc.?

I've tried paid ads on Goodreads and Google, but they both got nothing. And since I have a day job, speaking engagements are kind of hard to arrange.

[Justin Nemo]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

I've tried paid ads on Goodreads and Google, but they both got nothing. And since I have a day job, speaking engagements are kind of hard to arrange.

Paid Google adds are always going to be a hard one, because you are competing on keywords with people who have a large advertising budget. I presume you meant Google keyword adds or Adwords I think they used to call them.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Justin Nemo

Paid Google adds are always going to be a hard one, because you are competing on keywords with people who have a large advertising budget. I presume you meant Google keyword adds or Adwords I think they used to call them.

Yup, and you're exactly right: Without a serious ad budget, the odds are against you.

[davidwfleming]

So social media's out, likewise for speaking engagements and paid advertisements.

That leaves going after the book bloggers. This can be tedious and frustrating. Sometimes you can stumble upon a reviewer on Goodreads. Otherwise, I use directory websites that I find on Google to send out about 25 requests a day. Flattery, professionalism and finding common ground between you and the reviewer all help.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by davidwfleming

So social media's out, likewise for speaking engagements and paid advertisements.

That leaves going after the book bloggers. This can be tedious and frustrating. Sometimes you can stumble upon a reviewer on Goodreads. Otherwise, I use directory websites that I find on Google to send out about 25 requests a day. Flattery, professionalism and finding common ground between you and the reviewer all help.

Yes, this one can be tough as well, and I'm still working to polish the process.

I've found a lot of resistance in the SF area: The more serious my SF is, the less likely those who read or review SF believe an unknown like myself is actually good enough to write it. I actually get this treatment from people I know.

I've had a few good reviews from Goodreads members, but nothing has come of them.

[davidwfleming]

An interesting post and video:

http://tonyakappes.blogspot.ca/2011/...t-success.html

[gmw]

Originally Posted by davidwfleming

An interesting post and video:

http://tonyakappes.blogspot.ca/2011/...t-success.html

Thanks for that. I think Tonya's oft repeated query can be a very important in success (assuming "success" to you means wanting to become someone like Tonya) ... but what I am left with after reading that post is the impression: Wanting it bad makes her put in the effort to write books, but none of her examples actually showed how it led to actual success (assuming we are talking about success=sales here). We've already been noting on this thread that producing a book is very different from getting it noticed.

I've also been to various sales seminars etc. - which is how I know for certain just how bad my marketing skills are - so I'm familiar with the rah-rah self-work-up campaign. Do I want it so bad that I'm willing to talk like that, to look at life like that? I've answered that in the negative several times in the past. It doesn't mean I don't work hard, it just means I like it quiet.

[kennyc]

Agreed. I've seen that Derrick Rose video, typical motivational speaker stuff. I don't mean that in a bad way, but it's good to get fired up but it more reminds me of sales meeting hoopla; motivating car salesmen to sell the customer a bad used car no matter what the customer really wants. As I've said before in this thread yes, you need to get the word out, but first you need to learn to write good stuff. It all depends on what you want to do, your definition of success. Do you want to be successful as a salesman or as a writer?

To address that particular blog post, "How Bad Do You Want It?" I also agree with you have to be motivated and get the work done, but that should not be your only focus. Life IS worth living. I really wonder how much she appreciates her son's baseball games and achievements. How much of those real events she has completely missed because her mind was elsewhere.

I'd advise those that want to make it as a writer to focus on the writing, yes learn to present yourself, learn to market yourself, but don't make that your job as opposed to writing. There is no secret, good writing is the true key to indie success.

[orlok]

Originally Posted by kennyc

I really wonder how much she appreciates her son's baseball games and achievements. How much of those real events she has completely missed because her mind was elsewhere.

I'm with you there. When I looked at those photos my immediate reaction was "I wonder how those kids feel being ignored all the way through their games?"

I'm going to a recital tonight where my daughter is performing a composition of her own (singing and playing guitar). How thrilled she would be if I sat in the audience, head down, writing rather than paying attention.

My answer to her question? Obviously not bad enough!

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by orlok

..

My answer to her question? Obviously not bad enough!

I'd rephrase that slightly, "Obviously not bad enough to miss the wonder of life itself."

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by kennyc

I'd rephrase that slightly, "Obviously not bad enough to miss the wonder of life itself."

Or perhaps "Not badly enough that I loose sight of what really matters in this life."

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

Or perhaps "Not badly enough that I loose sight of what really matters in this life."

There ya go, that's why your the writer.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by kennyc

There is no secret, good writing is the true key to indie success.

"Good" is relative, but I couldn't agree more. A lot of people out there pimping themselves all day are just wasting their time and annoying everyone else because their writing isn't up to much. It's not like print books where you can con people into buying any old crap, people can read at least the first couple of chapters before they decide.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by kennyc

There is no secret, good writing is the true key to indie success.

I hate to say that's not enough, but... you can be a great writer, but if no one knows about you, you won't be successful. You can't just depend on the world to spontaneously discover and promote you... for most authors, that will simply not happen.

I'll also point out that some of the most successful books aren't from great writers.