Multiple ends

[Quoth]

Mobi had or has a tag that means "you can't turn page forward". This is handy for a "Plot your own adventure" as then the only way forward is to select one of the internal links (to anchors) that are user choices at the end of the "Chapter".

Can this be done in epub2?

Has anyone a complete table of features that work in old mobi, AZW3/KFX and epub2. Obviously page breaks, justification types, margins, bold, italic and bold+ italic and font size all work. Monospace, serif and sans-serif font face all seem to work with those three font styles in old Mobi, at least sometimes, depending on exactly what is done in Word/Writer. Switching per paragraph seems more reliable than per word in a paragraph. Even converting to epub or AZW.

If so how can it be automated in say a docx to epub2 conversion in Calibre, perhaps by detection of the heading / chapter style and inserting the tag before.

Is there any way to indicate it in Word/Writer? Obviously a reserved style that is then converted by a rule in Calibre could be used.

Does AZW / KF8 support this ancient mobi tag? I tested it ages ago on XP using Mobi Pocket Creator. I made a MS Word Doc, exported or converted to HTML (I forget which), cleaned it up and added the extra tag after every line of choices using Notepad++. I don't use XP now or even Windows now, so I'd have to dig out the old PC and try again, or find my demo file. I wasn't using epub or azw back then.

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

Can this be done in epub2?

AFAIK, it can't be done in epub2. For more information, see this thread.

[Quoth]

Interesting discussion, however the tag used in mobo doesn't work like that. It's like a special paragraph tag that simply stops you going to the next page.
I'd want ALL the chapters/sections listed normally in a TOC
My friend has designed a map game with a very slight resemblance to Near and Far in that there is a printed book of maps and associated text related to places on the map.

More like <br /> in style than <div style="clear: both;"></div>
I'll see can I find it.

So far I found this
https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200673180

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

I'll see can I find it.

It might have been <mbp:section>

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

So far I found this
https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200673180

You can't use any of these tags to prevent readers from reading the next page.

Do you plan to self-publish your book on KDP?

[Quoth]

Yes, it was section.
Sections

The <mbp:section> tag allows the definition of sections in a book, from which the user cannot escape by turning to the next page at the end of the section or turning to the previous page at the beginning of the section.

This is enforced by using the crossable="no" attribute. In this case, the only way to jump from one section to another is to have hyperlinks or indexes which point into another location.

You can also use this attribute in the <mpb:frameset> tag, which encloses a non crossable main HTML content flow

By default if no attribute is set, crossable="yes"

Example :

<mbp:section crossable="no">
This is the first section.<a href="#section2">Go to the next section</a>
</mbp:section>
<mbp:pagebreak/>

<mbp:section crossable="no">
<a name="section2" />This is the second section
</mbp:section>

I found your link just before I came back!
https://web.archive.org/web/20160314...le=section.htm

I'm sure I archived all that years ago before or just after Amazon bought mobi. The mobi creator, PC reader and all the documentation was still online for a while after Amazon "borged" them.

I remember being disappointed that the simple client side image map, which works fine on static HTML pages without javascript (and is fast & lightweight) wasn't supported.

I'm doing support for the game developer. There will be no separate book. He'd thought of an app to do the text part of the game as an alternative to a book with the big book of maps. So each player could have a copy.
He'd never encountered eBooks and didn't realise how much work making an iOS, Android and Windows app is compared to an ebook version of the paperback book of text with the game boards. As most here know, with a docx source (needed to make PDF for printed book anyway) and Calibre, epub2 can be uploaded to Amazon. The epub2, dual mobi and ms doc files to Smashwords. Even a code in the printed game rules to download free from Smashwords.

At the end of the day, it's no big deal to block the next page, it's available on the print copy and likely via search or TOC.

[Quoth]

P.S. I've done programming for more than 30 years, and some Android. Just making an ebook from a decently formatted LibreOffice Writer or MS Word via docx via Calibre is WAY faster, minutes vs months.

[Turtle91]

Just wondering - does crossable=no keep someone from going to the next chapter/html page? If it doesn't then the whole book would need to be on a single html page - with the issues that brings up. No??

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Just wondering - does crossable=no keep someone from going to the next chapter/html page? If it doesn't then the whole book would need to be on a single html page - with the issues that brings up. No??

Not quite. You can't page forward or backwards out of the current section so you need a link to a different section to leave the section you are in. There should be multiple links so multiple choices. Select the next step in the quest, go to to the nearest inn for R&R, etc.

[Quoth]

Each section can be a separate file, or even split to separate files.
The only issue seems to be that it's not supported in epub2.
It is supported in AZW/KF8 according to Amazon's HTML tag guide for Kindle generation.

I have a suspicion that it is possible in epub2 by having all the files in the TOC but messing with the playorder? Possibly actual epub renderers would baulk

 <navPoint id="u5As8H7DXtuyEsfIbRU5kJ5" playOrder="18">
      <navLabel>
        <text>Chapter 18: Recognition</text>
      </navLabel>
      <content src="index_split_021.html"/>
    </navPoint>

Typically Calibre breaks the source into separate HTML files by Chapter or Heading or source TOC.
There is no link at all between the chapters in the files. So next & prior page are within a file except when it's the next TOC or previous TOC entry.

So the epub renderer uses the TOC to get to the next page at the end of a chapter. There is also the Manifest, but it's just a link of files.

Presumably the Playorder and/or the order of TOC entries decides what happens with page next at the end of a chapter?

[Quoth]

OK, I experimented.
Curiously editing the playOrder seemed to have no effect, at least previewing in Calibre's epub viewer.
Removing a TOC entry entirely only removes it from the TOC (duh!). Curiously Next Page at the end of the chapter goes to the missing next chapter 1st page.

So is the renderer / viewer using the list in <spine toc="ncx" of content.opf?

[Quoth]

More experiments
Link to ch2 in the book:
If ch2 file is is removed from <spine toc="ncx"> list it can't be reached from TOC or a link. You get an error even though it's still in <manifest>
The playOrder in TOC doesn't seem to do anything.
Page Next at the end of a file/chapter simply loads the next item listed in <spine toc="ncx">

[Quoth]

So this is why people looked at linear="no"
RE: Items listed in <spine toc="ncx">

While not required, you can add the attribute linear="no" to any of the itemref elements. This means that the section will be skipped if the reader is paging through the eBook. However, you can permit access to the content by creating a hyperlink. This may be a useful feature if you want to create an educational eBook with hidden answer keys.

Except it only works in some epub3 renderers, so useless
The example link in the paragraph above is dead.
https://github.com/krisztianmukli/ep...ntent.opf-File


So it looks like that you can only duplicate a printed "Plot your own adventure", replacing "Goto page <nnn>" with a link on the choice text.
Not a big deal.

P.S. No need to remove any item for Kindle as suggested in link above if the epub is being uploaded to Amazon or converted by Calibre. At least now, anyway. Amazon and Calibre conversions from decent epub2 to old mobi, azw3/kf8 and kfx are perfect.

[Quoth]

So basically though linear="no" is in epub2 spec no commonly owned physical ereader or commonly used iOS or Android app actually uses it, as per the 2017 thread.

It's irrelevant if Nook or Kobo supports it tomorrow. Most users won't have it. Readium is almost irrelevant market share.

So don't use

 <itemref idref="c1-answerkey" linear="no"/>

[JSWolf]

There could be another problem. If the link doesn't land on the page you cannot move away from, you're screwed. And are you sure you can make the links land on the page you want? If someone changes the text size to be large or is reading on a small screen with large enough text.

So really, this is also a bad idea to make the pages stick.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

... If the link doesn't land on the page you cannot move away from, you're screwed. And are you sure you can make the links land on the page you want? If someone changes the text size to be large or is reading on a small screen with large enough text.
So really, this is also a bad idea to make the pages stick.

I agree, there is no way to do this on epub, so I've abandoned the idea utterly. Also my goal in ebook generation is that the epub2 and and azw3/KF8 should look very similar and be similar to WYSIWG formatted on a small page in the wordprocessor done with no content incompatible to an ebook. I also check that the book is "sane" on a basic mobi viewer & ereader, without publisher font enabled (if that's an option). I check on Kindle, Kobos, Nook, Sony PRS350, Calibre Viewer and various apps on Android phone, Android Tablet and Windows tablet.

This particular project isn't a standalone ebook at all, but an additional complementary way to access the text for the map board game (a large ring bound book so that a double page spread map lies flat for counters/avatars). The text will be in ONE copy of a paperback, printed like a conventional "Plot your own adventure" except there is random access into it from the map location. The choices also have map board related actions and dice throws.

However sometimes there are links internal to an ebook and also to the Internet (where HW & SW of ereader & app support Internet). It's part of quality control to test that ALL links work. Also an anchor for a link to jump to should only be at the start of a paragraph in the original document for maximum conversion compatibility.

I don't see how text and screen size affect properly constructed links and anchors? Maybe I'm not understanding.