Sigil or Scribus?

[elibrarian]

For those not knowing, Scribus is a Desktop Publishing program, like Indesign and Affinity Publisher. It's been some years since I last used it, but my impression then was, that it was quite sophisticated software, if somewhat clunky, having a fair share of peculiarities, and with a rather steep learning curve. But it's not badly maintained, nor dead – last version 1.5.8 came out in january 2022 – the development is just s-l-o-w, and always have been in the 19+ years it's been around. AFAIK it does not export to epub.

That said, if the OP doesn't have very specific needs, the use of DTP software for creating an epub or pdf will only complicate his/hers life. There really isn't much you can do in a DPT program, that you can't reproduce in a wordprocessor like LO Writer or Word, if you know your way around your preferred app.

So my recommendation would be LO Writer (with proper use of styles) and import the finished document to Sigil using the ODTImport plugin. You will of course need some knowledge af HTML and CSS to finetune the result.

If you want a PDF, then Writer can save/export directly to that format.

And as always: Just my two pennies' worth …

Regards,

Kim

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Why not? Do you mean it won't create an ebook that meets your standards, or are you saying Scribus is incapable of creating an ebook? if the later... fine, but if the former, make that plain, and describe why you don't think the software will work well for creating an ebook.

I tried to find out if Sribus is able to output ePub or any format that can be made into a reflowable eBook. The best I found was PDF.

So it seems Scribus is unable to make an eBook to anyone's standards.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by elibrarian

For those not knowing, Scribus is a Desktop Publishing program, like Indesign and Affinity Publisher. It's been some years since I last used it, but my impression then was, that it was quite sophisticated software, if somewhat clunky, having a fair share of peculiarities, and with a rather steep learning curve. But it's not badly maintained, nor dead – last version 1.5.8 came out in january 2022 – the development is just s-l-o-w, and always have been in the 19+ years it's been around. AFAIK it does not export to epub.

That said, if the OP doesn't have very specific needs, the use of DTP software for creating an epub or pdf will only complicate his/hers life. There really isn't much you can do in a DPT program, that you can't reproduce in a wordprocessor like LO Writer or Word, if you know your way around your preferred app.

So my recommendation would be LO Writer (with proper use of styles) and import the finished document to Sigil using the ODTImport plugin. You will of course need some knowledge af HTML and CSS to finetune the result.

If you want a PDF, then Writer can save/export directly to that format.

And as always: Just my two pennies' worth …

Regards,

Kim

Kim (^^^ above) said what I would have said, so, do what Kim said. use LO. There's no reason on God's Green Blue Earth to use Scribus, for what you've described. LO is a remarkably robust and FREE-FREE-FREE, well-maintained product, unlike its poor cousin OO, and does about 99% of what most self-published authors could ever need.

That is my best advice. neither Scribus nor Sigil are really meant to write IN. They are...they are programs designed to take one format of a finished manuscript/book and prepare it for another format or life. So, from manuscript to paperback layout (Scribus and LO too, really), or manuscript to ePUB (Sigil, and LO+Sigil).

OK? Do what Kim does. He knows whereof he speaks. So now you have four pennies' worth.

Hitch

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I tried to find out if Sribus is able to output ePub or any format that can be made into a reflowable eBook. The best I found was PDF.

So it seems Scribus is unable to make an eBook to anyone's standards.

Take a look at the posts on either side of yours. There you'll see what helpful posts actually look like. Two people who know what Scribus is (and isn't) capable of and shared that knowledge. Not people who "tried to find out" and threw out a "don't use it, I said so" post.

Moderator Notice
Learn the difference and consider not posting if you have no first-hand knowledge to share about a particular topic.

[1eduard]

Thank you very much for your answers!

[1eduard]

Originally Posted by elibrarian

For those not knowing, Scribus is a Desktop Publishing program, like Indesign and Affinity Publisher. It's been some years since I last used it, but my impression then was, that it was quite sophisticated software, if somewhat clunky, having a fair share of peculiarities, and with a rather steep learning curve. But it's not badly maintained, nor dead – last version 1.5.8 came out in january 2022 – the development is just s-l-o-w, and always have been in the 19+ years it's been around. AFAIK it does not export to epub.

That said, if the OP doesn't have very specific needs, the use of DTP software for creating an epub or pdf will only complicate his/hers life. There really isn't much you can do in a DPT program, that you can't reproduce in a wordprocessor like LO Writer or Word, if you know your way around your preferred app.

So my recommendation would be LO Writer (with proper use of styles) and import the finished document to Sigil using the ODTImport plugin. You will of course need some knowledge af HTML and CSS to finetune the result.

If you want a PDF, then Writer can save/export directly to that format.

And as always: Just my two pennies' worth …

Regards,

Kim

Thank you very much for your answer!

However the questions I still have: What can I do with Scribus I can't do with L. O.? or do I need to study Scribus?
Or is the easiest way to do it all in Adobe InDesign (there's the problem I now haven't much money!).

[elibrarian]

Originally Posted by 1eduard

Thank you very much for your answer!

However the questions I still have: What can I do with Scribus I can't do with L. O.? or do I need to study Scribus?
Or is the easiest way to do it all in Adobe InDesign (there's the problem I now haven't much money!).

Why are you so keen on using DTP applications? If you're writing and publishing a novel, there's no need whatsoever, as both Hitch and Turtle (and me) has tried to say.

Regards,

Kim

[1eduard]

Originally Posted by elibrarian

Why are you so keen on using DTP applications? If you're writing and publishing a novel, there's no need whatsoever, as both Hitch and Turtle (and me) has tried to say.

Regards,

Kim

Sorry, I don't agree with you!

To sell a book good it has to look good (= attractive).

[elibrarian]

Originally Posted by 1eduard

Sorry, I don't agree with you!

To sell a book good it has to look good (= attractive).

That's your prerogative.

But before I bow out: You can make very beautiful things with a wordprocessor, if you know what you're doing – and extremely godawful ugly things with a DTP program, if you don't know your way around.

The quality of the output is not necessarily equivalent with the cost of the software …

But this discussion has not even remotely anthing to do with Sigil anymore …

Regards,

Kim

[1eduard]

I totally agree with you!

Thanks!

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by 1eduard

Sorry, I don't agree with you!

To sell a book good it has to look good (= attractive).

Hi:

Okay, well, look--I'm a pro. I do book design and eBook formatting for living and have for over a decade now. And yes, IF you were goign to sell your services to someone else, I would tell you a) license and LEARN to use InDesign (I wouldn't waste time on Scribus, myself, for a longer-term goal) and b) learn book design, which is not magically imparted WITH a license for InDesign, Scribus, or Bob's Big Book-making Magic Software®.

See, that's the thing--book design is NOT the software, solely. Sure, having software that has built-in kerning, leading, etc. matters, to SOME extent. But it's not...it doesn't just DO IT for you. I see lousily-laid books, in InDesign, every damned day, blood literally.

Got a year? During which you can learn fundamentals of design, first? Take some courses at Parson's, or the like? and THEN learn to use one of the pieces of software, out there in the world, with the steepest learning curve (INDD, Scribus, Affinity Publisher, et al)? No? Well, then...????

There are perfectly usable "templates" out there, in WORD or docx format that you can use that will get you a viable print layout and eBook. I would strongly consider, were I you, starting out with one of those and working my way up from there.

Joel Friedlander's TheBookDesigner Templates site is still going. (Joel sadly passed.) You may spend relatively few shekels and buy a decent, viable design and use it. Thsoe are here: https://www.bookdesigntemplates.com/

There are usable templates, again affordably, all over the net, including places like Envato Elements, DesignCuts, MightyDeals and the like. GET ONE OF THOSE first.

Because trust me, book design ain't just slapping in a relatively clean docx file and pushing a button. There is stuff to learn.

That, truly, is my best advice. If you have the time, can afford the software, have the burning desire to really LEARN book design, and other design aspects, great! Then have at it. But if all this Sturm und Drang is about your own books looking professional and commercial--an impulse with which I completely agree, mind you!--then take it in manageable steps.

Again--it's a bit like saying that if you buy Adobe Illustrator, then tomorrow, YOU TOO can design kids' book illustrations! Wait, what--you can't, because you can't draw? Well, rats, then.

That's the same with Book Design. Lumbering yourself with an expensive, harder-to-learn program (especially when you don't yet understand what it means when it says tracking or kerning, for example), and then trying to cram in design principles and elements--you're just making it harder than it needs to be. A LOT HARDER.

That's MY $.02 for today. It's worth exactly what you're paying for it, mind you, but...I hope you'll listen, for your own sake.

Hitch

[1eduard]

Thank you very much for your reply!

A few comments:

1 I don't live in The States (The Netherlands, Europe)
2 My book (written part) is almost finished. I started it some years ago.
3 So, I want to publish it soon (3-6 months)
4 I already have some experience with InDesign and web design
5 I work with LINUX

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by 1eduard

Thank you very much for your reply!

A few comments:

1 I don't live in The States (The Netherlands, Europe)
2 My book (written part) is almost finished. I started it some years ago.
3 So, I want to publish it soon (3-6 months)
4 I already have some experience with InDesign and web design
5 I work with LINUX

Oookay. I'm honestly not sure, aside from 5, what the other elements have in terms of relevance to the discussion. In fact, 5 would, I should think, make LO even more appropos.

Vis 4: the road to eBook hell, I must add, is paved and a downward slope, iced over, making for an ever-faster, speedy runway to death, with "I already have some experience with...web design."

Trust me when I tell you, the WORST and most effed-up eBooks I've EVER SEEN, were built by people who informed me--me being mere crust and nightsoil off their shoes, mind you--that THEY knew and understood web design and HTML and CSS.

I have lost track of the ridiculous things I've seen in eBooks, that "web designers" put in them, not remotely understanding that none of them would work outside of a browser, and most of them, not even then. I have one of recent memory that three of us--three, two college-degreed, trained programmers and myself, mind you--could NEVER figure out what the hell this bozo thought he was doing. Literally. Could not figure out what the frack he thought was going to occur. Now, that's special, when you can confuse three working adults, all of whom work in that neck of the woods, using only CSS and HTML (and of course, some random JS and JSON, that he must have picked up gods-alone-know-where....) [sigh].

SO, I would proceed carefully on the "I already have some web design" experience portion of your ebook program. But hey....it's your book and your time to invest/spend/waste. I'm mentioning this solely so that are aware that these pitfalls do exist and will bite you in the gluteus Maximus.

Since you seem to have your mind kinda made up, I think I'll bow out here.


Hitch

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by Hitch

[...] use LO. There's no reason on God's Green Blue Earth to use Scribus, for what you've described. LO is a remarkably robust and FREE-FREE-FREE, well-maintained product, [...] and does about 99% of what most self-published authors could ever need.

Yes. Exactly.

LibreOffice (or Word) + learning how to use Styles will get you 90%+ of the way there.

This will give you a very clean document to use as a base, which makes every step after (including Print+Ebook) much easier.

A clean+consistent file will mean much less fiddling around needed in:

• Sigil/HTML to get your ebook prepped for Amazon/B&N/everywhere else.
• LibreOffice/InDesign/other to get your PDF prepped for a physical book.

- - -

If you want more information, follow my posts over the years, especially:

• 2020: "eBook Formatting in Sigil"
  
  • Posts #46 + #48 + #52

If you want even more info on how to use LibreOffice properly, the past year I've been pumping out near-daily tutorials on the LibreOffice subreddit:

• 2022: /r/LibreOffice: "LO Writer default font?"

If you want even more information on differences between Word Processors vs. Typesetting Software (LibreOffice/Word vs. InDesign/LaTeX), then see my in-depth posts:

• 2022: /r/selfpublish: "Why I don't pay someone to format for me"
• 2022: /r/selfpublish: "Anybody have experience with the website formattedbooks?"
• 2022: /r/LibreOffice: "Make it look beautiful"
• 2022: /r/LibreOffice: "Should LibreOffice Writer add more layout/typesetting features . . ."

Originally Posted by 1eduard

2 My book (written part) is almost finished. I started it some years ago.
3 So, I want to publish it soon (3-6 months)

Good. Then go back and clean up your Styles and you'll be well on your way.

Originally Posted by 1eduard

5 I work with LINUX

Great, then LibreOffice works fine.

Just make sure you're on the latest version (7.3 or 7.4), and you'll be good.

(LibreOffice 7.2 recently added gutter support, which is very important for anyone self-publishing a physical book.)

Originally Posted by 1eduard

1 I don't live in The States (The Netherlands, Europe)

Great. Then make sure you mark your document/ebook as the proper HTML lang.

(In your case, Netherlands = Dutch = "nl".)

Originally Posted by 1eduard

4 I already have some experience with InDesign and web design

Great. Then:

• Clean your LO document using Styles.
• Save as DOCX.
• Import into InDesign, then you should be able to map your LO Styles -> InDesign Styles.

That will save you many headaches.

[1eduard]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Oookay. I'm honestly not sure, aside from 5, what the other elements have in terms of relevance to the discussion. In fact, 5 would, I should think, make LO even more appropos.

Vis 4: the road to eBook hell, I must add, is paved and a downward slope, iced over, making for an ever-faster, speedy runway to death, with "I already have some experience with...web design."

Trust me when I tell you, the WORST and most effed-up eBooks I've EVER SEEN, were built by people who informed me--me being mere crust and nightsoil off their shoes, mind you--that THEY knew and understood web design and HTML and CSS.

I have lost track of the ridiculous things I've seen in eBooks, that "web designers" put in them, not remotely understanding that none of them would work outside of a browser, and most of them, not even then. I have one of recent memory that three of us--three, two college-degreed, trained programmers and myself, mind you--could NEVER figure out what the hell this bozo thought he was doing. Literally. Could not figure out what the frack he thought was going to occur. Now, that's special, when you can confuse three working adults, all of whom work in that neck of the woods, using only CSS and HTML (and of course, some random JS and JSON, that he must have picked up gods-alone-know-where....) [sigh].

SO, I would proceed carefully on the "I already have some web design" experience portion of your ebook program. But hey....it's your book and your time to invest/spend/waste. I'm mentioning this solely so that are aware that these pitfalls do exist and will bite you in the gluteus Maximus.

Since you seem to have your mind kinda made up, I think I'll bow out here.


Hitch

I was thinking:

I finish my book (some months) with L. O..
When it's ready I send it to you to hear what your comments are?
(First I make a physical book and depending how it sells an e-book!)