End of Sony consumer readers confirmed

[zerospinboson]

So long as they don't come up with a decent ereader with stylus, with the option to write on pdfs, and so long as the iliad+DR1000 we have keep working, I doubt I will.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Salgueiros

I had all of them since the PRS 505, except the 900. I always felt and i still do that they are way better. I like the design to start with, they feel more like a book and less like a gadget. They are beautiful and they are exceedingly reliable.

No, you misunderstand my question. You said that you thought that Sony devices were better than any other make. I was asking which other brands of reader you'd used as the basis for that comparison? I've owned Sony, Kindle, Bookeen, Onyx, Pocketbook, and probably others, too. With the exception of the Bookeen devices, which were extremely unreliable, I'd put them all on a par as far as reliability and build quality goes.

[mbovenka]

Originally Posted by zerospinboson

So long as they don't come up with a decent ereader with stylus, with the option to write on pdfs, and so long as the iliad+DR1000 we have keep working, I doubt I will.

So you are that one guy that bought a DR1000? . I remember drooling over the iLiad back in 2007, but being scared off by the price (even for the time). Ended up getting a Cybook.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mbovenka

So you are that one guy that bought a DR1000? . I remember drooling over the iLiad back in 2007, but being scared off by the price (even for the time). Ended up getting a Cybook.

I've got one, too. Still have it somewhere, although I've not used it in a long time. One thing it did have, which no other subsequent device has had, was a wonderful "tabbed" interface which let you have multiple documents open, and flip between them with a tap on the screen. Great for academic research.

[zerospinboson]

Originally Posted by mbovenka

So you are that one guy that bought a DR1000? . I remember drooling over the iLiad back in 2007, but being scared off by the price (even for the time). Ended up getting a Cybook.

Yeah, it's a shame that they went bankrupt thanks to an attempted American Adventure that went awry thanks to delayed FDA approval.. Would've really liked it if they'd become more widely used, and if there had been more people developing new software for it. (I bought my DR1000 a bit after the company went belly-up, though, for €250.)

Originally Posted by HarryT

I've got one, too. Still have it somewhere, although I've not used it in a long time. One thing it did have, which no other subsequent device has had, was a wonderful "tabbed" interface which let you have multiple documents open, and flip between them with a tap on the screen. Great for academic research.

Yup; and that is indeed my main reason for using it.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by zerospinboson

Yeah, it's a shame that they went bankrupt thanks to an attempted American Adventure that went awry thanks to delayed FDA approval..

Anybody would go under waiting for FDA approval for an ebook reader. The FOOD and DRUG ADMINISTRATION never signs off on those.

The FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISION does, though.
But submitting in november a product meant to sell in December is a guaranteed disaster. The ILIAD approval was delayed because the submission for testing was delayed. (Of course, having a history of non-compliant products didn't help grease the process any.)

The rule of thumb is that any product intended for holiday season sale needs to be submitted in august in case testing reveals any issues which is why the first hints of new Sony readers usually came in July.

And ILIAD's problem was they had a deal with BEST BUY where the volume of units depended on getting them to stores for the holidays, not february.
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74428

Even back then it was understood that mainstream ereader sales are seasonal. That was one aspect of the market Sony got right. Unlike Nook, that kept doing spring ereader releases, just in time for the slowest sales quarter of the year.

Lots of ways to fail in the consumer electronics business, few ways to win...

[booklover6]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Other than Kindles that leave the light on all the time, don't the others have the option to turn it off? Nobody said you had to use it. I see it on the road almost every day - some cars may have builtin turn signals, but their drivers don't use them.

Are you sure those vehicles actually have turn signals installed? I wonder. Or maybe they are too complicated for the drivers. Sad to see a $50K vehicle with no functioning turn signal, isn't it?

I have mostly lighted readers, and I leave the light on all the time. I just like it. I do have 4 unlighted readers, and love three of them (I don't use the Nook ST much). When I am immersed in reading, I forget whether it's lighted or not (unless the room is too dark). Of course looking at them side by side, my preference is drawn to the lighted ones.

[zerospinboson]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Anybody would go under waiting for FDA approval for an ebook reader. The FOOD and DRUG ADMINISTRATION never signs off on those.

The FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION does, though.
But submitting in november a product meant to sell in December is a guaranteed disaster. The ILIAD approval was delayed because the submission for testing was delayed. (Of course, having a history of non-compliant products didn't help grease the process any.)

The rule of thumb is that any product intended for holiday season sale needs to be submitted in august in case testing reveals any issues which is why the first hints of new Sony readers usually came in July.

And ILIAD's problem was they had a deal with BEST BUY where the volume of units depended on getting them to stores for the holidays, not february.
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74428

Even back then it was understood that mainstream ereader sales are seasonal. That was one aspect of the market Sony got right. Unlike Nook, that kept doing spring ereader releases, just in time for the slowest sales quarter of the year.

Lots of ways to fail in the consumer electronics business, few ways to win...

Cheers, wrote that pre-coffee. Was the iLiad (originally) noncompliant? Never knew. It may be that they submitted the DR800 too late for nov approval; don't recall reading about that at the time, though, as iRex wasn't all that great on the customer communication front. All I know is that the FCC failed to approve it on time, and I can only speculate as to what reasons there were for that -- bullying of non-US companies, underfunding of the FCC, etc..

[harriska2]

The issue I have with the kindle is that they are thin and flexible. At that point, it is easy to wreck them. Once person threw hers on the bed. It must have flexed a bit and at that point the screen went wonky. I'm not talking about breaking, I'm talking about barely flexing. And the kindle did have a cover! I throw my ipad on the bed, couch, etc all the tiime. 4 years later they are all still quite good. Same with the sony (it also has a cover). But man, some of those kindles have gone wonky with careful use. I'd rather pay more and not worry about something going wrong with it. I don't like to purchase consumer goods based on the fact you will upgrade in a year or two. We hang onto stuff. Our cars are kept generally 8 to 10 years (and they are purchased used at about 4 to 7 years old to begin with). Our TVs we keep for at least 6 years. Our computers are 4 to 6 years old before we upgrade (PC only lasts about 4, the Macs are lasting 6). Our laptop is still going strong at 8 but it is not complaining about the battery - go figure.

That said, I saw my ex-husband's PW2 and fell in love. That is what I would get if I didn't have an iPad that I shlep around with me. My husband, on the other hand, is the Sony reader user and he *has* to have buttons. At the bottom. Just like the 650.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by zerospinboson

Cheers, wrote that pre-coffee. Was the iLiad (originally) noncompliant? Never knew. It may be that they submitted the DR800 too late for nov approval; don't recall reading about that at the time, though, as iRex wasn't all that great on the customer communication front. All I know is that the FCC failed to approve it on time, and I can only speculate as to what reasons there were for that -- bullying of non-US companies, underfunding of the FCC, etc..

Bullying of non-US companies?

99% of what the FCC certifies is from non-US companies.
If they went out of their way to hamper non-US companies nothing would get through the pipeline.

The processing is done on a first come, first served books basis. And there is so much stuff submitted year-round it takes three months to process anything by anybody. And that is standards-based, compliant products. Non-compliant stuff gets bounced (and fast-tracked if re-submitted) but nothing gets "bullied". Two years ago, the LTE version on the FIRE HD8.9 almost missed the holiday season because it used a proprietary radio chip. And that was submitted in September. The only stuff submitted in november is next year stuff intended for introduction at CES.

If that's the story the iRex folks cooked up to hide their...unfamiliarity...with the technology, it is probably best for everybody that they're out of the business.

https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Category:IRex_iLiad

In May of 2009, non-compliance with a variety of FCC regulations halted all sales of the iLiad in North America.

They weren't discriminated against; they just didn't know what they were doing...on the wireless side.


The FCC even has a special division for helping small businesses figure out what rules apply to their product:
http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/comp...all-businesses

There's a lot of products and categories, each with different tests--from game controllers to pacemakers--which is why it takes so much time to test and certify. That is how they found out, way back in the day, that GSM phones interfered with heart pacemakers.

[AlbertaCowboy]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Converting to AZW3/MOBI costs nothing but disk space. If disk space is a problem for you, then go with a Kobo.

But if you are just concerned about the effort of doing all those conversions, I feel obliged to point out that you can queue hundreds of conversions right before you go to bed, and leave calibre churning overnight. When you get up in the morning it will all be done.

Don't get me wrong, I know it's nothing but queing up the conversions in Calibre, which sure I can do overnight. Nor is disk space an issue.
It's more becuase I'm a creature of habit, and changing from epub to mobi scares me ( :P ), as well as the fact that I have zero experience with Kindles. I'm relatively proficient with Kobo, having helped several co workers figure out the ins and outs of theirs, but no one I know has ever bought a Kindle.
Also, unless I'm mistaken, (which I likely am, not knowing about the newer Kindles) the Kindles have always had a lousy bookshelves or collections setup, which the Sony software excelled with. I'd rather not give up on my on device browsing via collections.
In all honesty, should I need to replace my 650 with another dedicated ereader, I'm sure I'll just find a T3 somewhere. They'll be kicking around in stores here in Canada for a while yet. I'm still seeing T1's here and there, so I'm not too too worried that they'll disappear overnight.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by AlbertaCowboy

It's more becuase I'm a creature of habit, and changing from epub to mobi scares me ( :P ), as well as the fact that I have zero experience with Kindles. I'm relatively proficient with Kobo, having helped several co workers figure out the ins and outs of theirs, but no one I know has ever bought a Kindle.
Also, unless I'm mistaken, (which I likely am, not knowing about the newer Kindles) the Kindles have always had a lousy bookshelves or collections setup, which the Sony software excelled with. I'd rather not give up on my on device browsing via collections.
.

The Android version of Kindle has feature parity with the eink devices. Why not try it on the tablet? Load it up with some free titles and give it a test drive. It's a pretty simple app to figure out.

[zerospinboson]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

They weren't discriminated against; they just didn't know what they were doing...on the wireless side.

iirc the US and EU regs concerning electronics (esp wifi) are different; so while I have no doubt that they were caught unawares because they hadn't looked into the issue properly, and that they were lacking in business acumen, I don't really see what basis you have for your conclusion that they "deserved to go out of business", simply because the device didn't comply with FCC regulations.

As for your suggestion that it's prima facie ridiculous that the US would preferentially treat its own companies: please look through the Snowden revelations wrt state-sponsored and conducted corporate espionage. And while I doubt that they actively spied on a bit player like iRex, this hardly invalidates the point that incumbents often prefer pointlessly costly -- pacemaker interference worries notwithstanding -- and demanding approval procedures, and other barriers to entry, because this makes for less competition from small (and possibly more innovative) companies -- be they foreign or domestic.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by zerospinboson

I don't really see what basis you have for your conclusion that they "deserved to go out of business", simply because the device didn't comply with FCC regulations.

Read again.
I didn't say they deserved to go out of business but rather that they are better off out of a business they didn't know how to compete in.
Makes a difference.

Especially when what put them out of business was failing to deliver product in time for prime selling season, leaving them stuck with excess product and bills they couldn't pay. That goes beyond not understanding regulations to failing to understand the market they expected to save an already floundering business. (Standard industry practice for new products is to wait for design certification before proceeding to manufacture them. Manufacturing before certification is risky business.)

Not everybody is cut out for competitive businesses, much less international consumer electronics.

As to the FCC regulations favoring big companies over small, there's plenty of Kickstarter projects that have no problem getting certified. Companies don't get much smaller. And it's not as if the three month thing is a secret.

[deddajay]

Originally Posted by AlbertaCowboy

In all honesty, should I need to replace my 650 with another dedicated ereader, I'm sure I'll just find a T3 somewhere. They'll be kicking around in stores here in Canada for a while yet. I'm still seeing T1's here and there, so I'm not too too worried that they'll disappear overnight.

Don't be too sure about that. Here in the UK they are no longer available on the Sony online store, where they were priced at £99. Google searching pulls up lots of sites "selling" the T3, but when you go on to them they have sold out, state not available or discontinued, or are priced anything up to £160 for the odd few still in stock, and most of those are the white version, which would be my last choice of colour and probably the least popular.

I did ring our local Sony store this morning and they had a couple of red and several white in their central depot, still at £99. They sold the last black one 2 weeks ago. I've bought another red in case either my mother in law's or my own T3 go wrong in the future. I am really sorry that there will be no more Sony's. I've stuck with them since the 505 and would have continued to do so, even though I also have the Kindle PW2, which is nice, but has so many features I like on the Sony missing, in particular collections and the ability to display the cover of the book you are actually reading. I hate the Kindle's standby screen collection of pictures. I also have the Kobo Touch, bought because it was only £30 on special offer, but I really don't like it at all. Hopefully, with my current T3 and the new one set aside for the future, I will be OK for a few years, and by then there may be something else on the market that compares favourably to the Sony readers.

Incidentally, the manager at the Sony store, in a not inconsiderable sized city in the UK, was only told yesterday about no more readers himself. He is also sorry as he told me they had sold really well.

Cheers
Deddajay