HTML TOC listed in .ncx?

brahms · 02-23-2016, 08:42 AM

Hi,

I've got an .epub validating nicely, all coded from scratch. My question is: should the html toc be listed as an element in the .ncx? Or would that be considered redundant.

Also, is it acceptable to have the TOC for a fiction book at the back, considering the reader has a button letting them see it anytime?

Thanks for your help.

Dave

Edit: Oops, forgot to say it's ePub 2.0

Toxaris · 02-23-2016, 11:21 AM

Before John joins in... Is there a specific reason you want a html toc? It isn't strictly necessary. If you do want it, it must be present in the opf but is not required in the ncx.

brahms · 02-23-2016, 01:28 PM

Thanks for replying.

I was assuming that for the widest range of platforms a parallel HTML version would be useful. Can all devices handle .ncx?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxaris

Before John joins in... Is there a specific reason you want a html toc? It isn't strictly necessary. If you do want it, it must be present in the opf but is not required in the ncx.

JSWolf · 02-23-2016, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brahms

Thanks for replying.

I was assuming that for the widest range of platforms a parallel HTML version would be useful. Can all devices handle .ncx?

All ePub complaint software can handle the NCX. So you don't need an HTML ToC in order to have a working ToC. Most Readers such as Kobo use a version of RMDSK (ADE) and that does handle an NCX ToC no problem.

brahms · 02-23-2016, 05:37 PM

Thanks JSWolf.

Do mobi readers all cope without as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

All ePub complaint software can handle the NCX. So you don't need an HTML ToC in order to have a working ToC. Most Readers such as Kobo use a version of RMDSK (ADE) and that does handle an NCX ToC no problem.

Toxaris · 02-23-2016, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brahms

Thanks JSWolf.

Do mobi readers all cope without as well?

Nope, because mobi isn't an ePUB...

DaleDe · 02-24-2016, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brahms

Thanks JSWolf.

Do mobi readers all cope without as well?

KF8 mobi's work fine without it but KF7 cannot use the NCX so the TOC would be missing except the very start of the file. Of course many books don't really need a TOC anyway but you will have to judge that. Amazon recommends a inline TOC but seems to no longer requires it.

Dale

KevinH · 02-24-2016, 09:04 PM

FWIW, Actually both mobi 7 and mobi 8 do have a table of contents index section that is generated from the ncx or nav by kindlegen. Kindleunpack even unacks this section to recreate the ncx.

KevinH

rubeus · 02-25-2016, 02:23 AM

There are some reasons for an HTML ToC:

You want to sell the converted ePub @Amazon. A good ToC may help your readers, but a liust of Chapter1 Chapter2 Chapter 3... isnt helpful.

If you have a good ToC it should be in the front of the book so its visible when the readers choose the preview.

If its just a simple flat representation of the NCX its redundant.

JSWolf · 02-25-2016, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

KF8 mobi's work fine without it but KF7 cannot use the NCX so the TOC would be missing except the very start of the file. Of course many books don't really need a TOC anyway but you will have to judge that. Amazon recommends a inline TOC but seems to no longer requires it.

Dale

KF8 is not a Mobi. There is no KF7. It's KF8 or Mobi, the two are not the same.

JSWolf · 02-25-2016, 08:04 AM

You can put in an HTML ToC for an ePub that you want to use to convert to sell on Amazon and use a version of the ePub without the HTML ToC to sell the eBook as an ePub.

brahms · 02-25-2016, 08:50 AM

Many thanks all.

The book is a novel, and in this case a TOC listing chapters is meaningless.

I am using Kindlegen, so perhaps I can leave out the TOC altogether and let KG create a TOC from the .ncx?

KevinH · 02-25-2016, 09:25 AM

No. Please stop making "definitive" statements that are simply wrong.

Mobi is a container file extension and KF7 and KF8 are formats for files that can be stored in .mobi containers. Both can even be stored in the same container.

KevinH

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

KF8 is not a Mobi. There is no KF7. It's KF8 or Mobi, the two are not the same.

JSWolf · 02-25-2016, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinH

No. Please stop making "definitive" statements that are simply wrong.

Mobi is a container file extension and KF7 and KF8 are formats for files that can be stored in .mobi containers. Both can even be stored in the same container.

KevinH

KF7 is not used as the name of the format by Amazon. They do not call their brand of Mobipocket KF7. They do call KF8 KF8 so KF8 is correct, but KF7 is incorrect.

Mobi is also short for Mobipocket which is the format you incorrectly call KF7.

JSWolf · 02-25-2016, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brahms

Many thanks all.

The book is a novel, and in this case a TOC listing chapters is meaningless.

I am using Kindlegen, so perhaps I can leave out the TOC altogether and let KG create a TOC from the .ncx?

Kindlegen does not create the ToC from the NCX. So you do need an HTML ToC when making eBooks with Kindlegen or you won't have a proper ToC.

02-23-2016, 08:42 AM	#1
brahms Enthusiast Posts: 43 Karma: 30 Join Date: Feb 2016 Device: none	HTML TOC listed in .ncx? Hi, I've got an .epub validating nicely, all coded from scratch. My question is: should the html toc be listed as an element in the .ncx? Or would that be considered redundant. Also, is it acceptable to have the TOC for a fiction book at the back, considering the reader has a button letting them see it anytime? Thanks for your help. Dave Edit: Oops, forgot to say it's ePub 2.0 Last edited by brahms; 02-23-2016 at 08:50 AM.

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02-23-2016, 11:21 AM	#2
Toxaris Wizard Posts: 4,520 Karma: 121692313 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Heemskerk, NL Device: PRS-T1, Kobo Touch, Kobo Aura	Before John joins in... Is there a specific reason you want a html toc? It isn't strictly necessary. If you do want it, it must be present in the opf but is not required in the ncx.

02-24-2016, 09:04 PM	#8
KevinH Sigil Developer Posts: 7,644 Karma: 5433388 Join Date: Nov 2009 Device: many	FWIW, Actually both mobi 7 and mobi 8 do have a table of contents index section that is generated from the ncx or nav by kindlegen. Kindleunpack even unacks this section to recreate the ncx. KevinH

02-25-2016, 02:23 AM	#9
rubeus Banned Posts: 272 Karma: 1224588 Join Date: Sep 2014 Device: Sony PRS 650	There are some reasons for an HTML ToC: You want to sell the converted ePub @Amazon. A good ToC may help your readers, but a liust of Chapter1 Chapter2 Chapter 3... isnt helpful. If you have a good ToC it should be in the front of the book so its visible when the readers choose the preview. If its just a simple flat representation of the NCX its redundant.

02-25-2016, 08:04 AM	#11
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,983 Karma: 128903378 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	You can put in an HTML ToC for an ePub that you want to use to convert to sell on Amazon and use a version of the ePub without the HTML ToC to sell the eBook as an ePub.

02-25-2016, 08:50 AM	#12
brahms Enthusiast Posts: 43 Karma: 30 Join Date: Feb 2016 Device: none	Many thanks all. The book is a novel, and in this case a TOC listing chapters is meaningless. I am using Kindlegen, so perhaps I can leave out the TOC altogether and let KG create a TOC from the .ncx?