Unutterably Silly Hello Toppie! The MR Book, Film, and Chowder Society talks Topper...

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

As to Topper Returns, I'd love to see it too. But it has never been released on anything but VHS...

Actually, there is a DVD that has Topper and Topper Returns on one DVD. I just reserved it from the library.

I've also purchased both Topper and Topper Takes a Trip as eBooks for $4.99 for both.

I even remember the TV series which was slightly different then the movies and books. But still very good.

[dreams]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Dreams, did you spot what I think is Milton Berle?

I tried to see who you thought was him.. Give me a hint... what section of the ending or character?

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

.... SNIP....(you don't have to answer this, but when was the last time you wore a girdle...)

A song from the 19th century US summed it up - "Putting on the agony, Putting on the style."

I'll answer this... 1968. And very daring at the time as we let the lace show below our above-the-knee skirts! Of course, we didn't wear pantyhose as it wasn't available at a reasonable cost. That was later when hot pants (short shorts) came in (you know, mini skirt era)

Very unique times.... Everything was still mostly homemade (clothing and food). We were not allowed to wear pants at school or allowed into most functions unless in a dress. My last year in high school we could wear mini's (barely covered my you-know-what) to school but not pants!

I did catch the rebellion against the rules of "society" but since I grew up seeing this in movies, TV, books, and hushed conversations in public, we all kinda knew what was going on.

[Wetdogeared]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Dreams, you need to remember the times that Thorne Smith wrote in. It was during Prohibition, and alcohol was a daring thing offically (as it was illegal). Sex couldn't be talk about, even after James Branch Cabell's Jurgen trial. It had to be hinted at. (And it was in the book, to the limit of the times.) His book were about the constraints of society, and rebellion against those constraints. Today, we have no constraints, and discerning people miss them (at least philosophically). Given the Hayes Code at the time (married couple shown with twin beds!), and the length of the book, I think the movie did a good job. The right length of story for a movie is about 50-100 pages...

Spot on Sir Ralph about his books being about the constraints of society, and the rebellion against those constraints. I think this is evident in the abundance of symbolism he uses, including the mandatory leg of lamb (constraints), the car (rebellion) and ultimately the sparrow (freedom). I had to laugh when he wanted to throw the leg of lamb out the window.

I watched the movie last week, having last viewed it over 30 years ago. I'm about a quarter way through the book, the first time I've read Topper.

And Zelda, I also remember my parents and grand parents dressing the best they could afford, putting away preserves and not wasting a crumb. I think this was a carryover from the 30's when times were tough for most. And now, due to our economic constrains, even I have gone back to making preserves, and baking my own bread. Not only as a cost saving measure, but to get that feeling of worth back in my life that got lost in all the greediness and self indulgence of recent years.

I believe the book and the movie were both racy for their times. Sitting on Marion's lap, with her arms around Topper's waist was more than just a sexual overtone. That low cut in the back dress that Marion wore in the movie was extremely sensual, as was most of the clothing. Do you think Thorne Smith deliberately chose invisible, and dead at that, characters to pull an end game around the restrictions of the censors at the time. How could it be indecent if they were not even there? Do the laws apply to dead people, as Marion was questioning herself in that her marriage only lasted until "death do us part"? And speaking of twin beds, in the movie, if I'm not mistaken, they had separate bedrooms.

Just think how the times have changed. Sex and nudity in a movie today is common place, yet drinking and driving or smoking in a movie today would almost be considered taboo.

Time to get back and read a few more chapters. I've had to look up some references made in the book. One reference was to "white duck trousers", a piece of clothing I've never heard mention before. They just seem to be white pants made out of duck material. The other was refering to a "brown study", which I found out to be "a state of deep absorption or thoughtfulness" or "gloomy mental state". Read and learn.

WDE.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Wetdogeared

...One reference was to "white duck trousers", a piece of clothing I've never heard mention before. They just seem to be white pants made out of duck material...

Duck being a type of linen canvas - not the water bird!

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Duck being a type of linen canvas - not the water bird!

OR, a person .... occasionally changed to 'duckie' ....

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Actually, there is a DVD that has Topper and Topper Returns on one DVD. I just reserved it from the library.

I've also purchased both Topper and Topper Takes a Trip as eBooks for $4.99 for both.

I even remember the TV series which was slightly different then the movies and books. But still very good.

I meant Topper Takes A Trip is not available on a disk....My bad.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by dreams

I tried to see who you thought was him.. Give me a hint... what section of the ending or character?

During the scenes where Topper is trying to leave the Hotel near the end. On one of the cuts, you'll see somebody who looks like Milton Berle behind the hotel desk, making a comment to the desk manager. 15 seconds, maybe.

[JSWolf]

Eddie "Rochester" Anderson is in the second Topper movie.

[Greg Anos]

Speaking of times and restraints. Look at all the effort of the hotel detective in the movie. Why have a hotel detective in the first place? To enforce the sexual morality of the time. (No shacking up.) Now, nobody cares....

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Speaking of times and restraints. Look at all the effort of the hotel detective in the movie. Why have a hotel detective in the first place? To enforce the sexual morality of the time. (No shacking up.) Now, nobody cares....

Damn, I need to do some catching up (Stupid hangover and wedding duties).

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Damn, I need to do some catching up (Stupid hangover and wedding duties).

luckily for me, all my friends are living in sin, so i don't have that problem. (well, not the second bit anyway... )

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

luckily for me, all my friends are living in sin, so i don't have that problem. (well, not the second bit anyway... )

Well the wedding was non-religious, civil ceremony, so I guess they still are living in sin (but what a beautiful sin it is)

On to the films of that era and there's a lot to be said for the enforcement of the Hays Code that lasted from 1930 - 1968. A strict set of moral guidelines were placed upon film-makers so that, for instance, you always saw two beds in a married couple's room, kisses only lasted a certain length of time and Crime Never Paid (in the end).

The film makers of that time had to be clever in showing one thing and saying another. Those old films are full of nuanced portrayals of life, and seem to be better for the restrictions, rather than worse. They leave a lot to the imagination (always a good thing). But it's not only that, at least for me, there's a kind of romance to those films that doesn't exist now. They are almost fantasies, magical realist in essence.

Plus, men wore a lot more hats back then (I would have fit right in)

Here are the 3 main stipulations of the Hays code:

No picture shall be produced that will lower the moral standards of those who see it. Hence the sympathy of the audience should never be thrown to the side of crime, wrongdoing, evil or sin.

Correct standards of life, subject only to the requirements of drama and entertainment, shall be presented.

Law, natural or human, shall not be ridiculed, nor shall sympathy be created for its violation.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Well the wedding was non-religious, civil ceremony, so I guess they still are living in sin (but what a beautiful sin it is)

On to the films of that era and there's a lot to be said for the enforcement of the Hays Code that lasted from 1930 - 1968. A strict set of moral guidelines were placed upon film-makers so that, for instance, you always saw two beds in a married couple's room, kisses only lasted a certain length of time and Crime Never Paid (in the end).

The film makers of that time had to be clever in showing one thing and saying another. Those old films are full of nuanced portrayals of life, and seem to be better for the restrictions, rather than worse. They leave a lot to the imagination (always a good thing). But it's not only that, at least for me, there's a kind of romance to those films that doesn't exist now. They are almost fantasies, magical realist in essence.

Plus, men wore a lot more hats back then (I would have fit right in)

i agree, filmmakers were incredibly inventive to find ways to get around the censors. hitchhock's (in)famous "train entering tunnel" scene is an obvious example ; the censors really couldn't say anything about that, but how much more explicit can innuendo get ? it had sometimes unexpected (and frankly amusing) consequences as well. dashiell hammett, annoyed at the stifling of all profane language in The Maltese Falcon (by his publisher), snuck in the word "gunsel" :

Note: The two meanings are believed to have originated concurrently but independently. gunsel: Or: gonsil / gonzel / gonsel : A 19th century term of German and Yiddish (little goose) derivation for a young, inexperienced gay male similar to the more recent gay slang term, "twink". See sodomite for synonyms.

The latter usage — a gun-toting hoodlum — derives from Dashiel Hammett's "The Maltese Falcon". Hammett's publisher at the time refused to allow any rude or profane terminology in his publication. Hammett slipped in "gunsel" — a street term for a young, gay man — as a joke. Since it is used throughout the book to refer to the character of Wilmer — a gun-toting thug — most people erroneously assumed that is what it meant and it stuck.

and i agree that leaving a lot to the imagination usually leads to a richer and more nuanced experience than showing every detail, and i think encourages a more active participation in the story by the spectator (who had to think about implications, and imagine ways to fill in the blanks).

i associate the romantic, magical realism quality (which i love too) in many of these films with the same esthetic of the era that gives us such effortlessly elegant images. i think there is a very deliberate desire to make life as beautiful as possible in these films which permeates every aspect. i regret that loss in today's creations (although from time to time it resurfaces a bit... Le fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain seems to correspond to that...) but at least we've still got all the old classics...

oh, and you can never have too many hats. i'm working on bringing hats back. anyone can join the movement : just wear a hat !

[Moejoe]

Amelie (UK title) was an awesome film. I wish there were more like it, but alas, all we seem to get is super men and super women in tight-fitting tights fighting other super men and super women in tight fitting tights.

There doesn't seem to be any time now in movies for characters or stories that rely on those characters. I can't even remember the last film that drew me to the cinema, a must-see. And Hollywood blames pirates for people not going to the cinema. Maybe if they made some stories with actual plots and characters they might be better off.

[Wetdogeared]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Plus, men wore a lot more hats back then (I would have fit right in)

Yes, among the most popular of summer hats in the 1930s was the jippa jappa (pronounced yippa yappa), more or less a straw fedorda.


and white duck trousers.