what do I have to do if I quote other material in my non-fiction book?

[Gregg Bell]

I'm planning a non-fiction book about spirituality and I want to quote some sacred texts and other writers. I've seen other books where in the beginning they have things like: NIV Bible quotations used by permission.

Do I need to do that? And if so, HOW do I do that?

And what about quoting other writers. Nothing more than a paragraph. Obviously I need to say who it is, but beyond that do I have any other obligation?

Thanks!

[crich70]

Well as I understand it you have to make sure it is 'fair use' rather than outright copying of large chunks. If you use more than (I think) 10% of a given text you have to have permission from the author whose work you are quoting. I'm not sure what the procedure is for a book that's in PD. I mean is it a translation of a PD book? If so how long ago was it translated? Even if the original was in PD the translation might not be.

[jandrew]

Take a look at the NIV terms of use for starters.

Also, check out fair use law in your jurisdiction, and common misconceptions.

It is always best if you get express permission from the publisher(s) for any excerpts you use in your published work. Even if you think fair use is a viable defense of your usage, a defense costs money to mount in the face of an actual suit against you.

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by crich70

Well as I understand it you have to make sure it is 'fair use' rather than outright copying of large chunks. If you use more than (I think) 10% of a given text you have to have permission from the author whose work you are quoting. I'm not sure what the procedure is for a book that's in PD. I mean is it a translation of a PD book? If so how long ago was it translated? Even if the original was in PD the translation might not be.

Thanks crich. Yeah, I think I'll be okay. I'll just be quoting a sentence or two. I've been asking around and some people say I'll need footnotes, written permission, to pay the author a fee and have them read my book before I publish it.

That seems crazy. And esp. since my book is non-academic, more of a memoir really.

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by jandrew

Take a look at the NIV terms of use for starters.

Also, check out fair use law in your jurisdiction, and common misconceptions.

It is always best if you get express permission from the publisher(s) for any excerpts you use in your published work. Even if you think fair use is a viable defense of your usage, a defense costs money to mount in the face of an actual suit against you.

Thanks jandrew. Those were good links. At this point I don't think anybody's going to be sueing me. I'm just going to use a line or two and attribute it to the author. Since it's a non-academic book I'm planning on writing I don't think I'll need footnotes.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by jandrew

It is always best if you get express permission from the publisher(s) for any excerpts you use in your published work.

Always?

This would force the author to avoid writing anything that the publisher, or a literary executor, didn't like. I would distrust an author who sold out their intellectual independence in this manner.

Anyone can sue anyone for anything, and, in the US, defendants can hardly ever get their legal bills reimbursed, even if they win by what amounts to a landslide. Even fiction authors sometimes are sued by someone imagining themselves to be a particular character. Lawsuits are, in my country, a risk you take when you speak out. The risk you take, if you get everyone you are writing about to authorize your book, is that no one, but them, will read it.

[zerofatzreturns]

Found this for you man:

Copyright Information

The NIV text may be quoted in any form (written, visual, electronic or audio), up to and inclusive of five hundred (500) verses without express written permission of the publisher, providing the verses do not amount to a complete book of the Bible nor do the verses quoted account for twenty-five percent (25%) or more of the total text of the work in which they are quoted.

When the NIV is quoted in works that exercise the above fair use clause, notice of copyright must appear on the title or copyright page or opening screen of the work (whichever is appropriate) as follows:

THE HOLY BIBLE, NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION®, NIV® Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.™ Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

These Scriptures are copyrighted by the Biblica, Inc.™ and have been made available on the Internet for your personal use only. Any other use including, but not limited to, copying or reposting on the Internet is prohibited. These Scriptures may not be altered or modified in any form and must remain in their original context. These Scriptures may not be sold or otherwise offered for sale.




hope it helps!


ZF

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Always?

This would force the author to avoid writing anything that the publisher, or a literary executor, didn't like. I would distrust an author who sold out their intellectual independence in this manner.

Anyone can sue anyone for anything, and, in the US, defendants can hardly ever get their legal bills reimbursed, even if they win by what amounts to a landslide. Even fiction authors sometimes are sued by someone imagining themselves to be a particular character. Lawsuits are, in my country, a risk you take when you speak out. The risk you take, if you get everyone you are writing about to authorize your book, is that no one, but them, will read it.

This was good, Steve, thanks.

In another forum someone said I needed to 1)consult a lawyer 2)get written permission from the other author 3)compensate the author 3)have the author approve of my book before publishing.

I agree with you. Thanks for bringing some sanity to the table.

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by zerofatzreturns

Found this for you man:

Copyright Information

The NIV text may be quoted in any form (written, visual, electronic or audio), up to and inclusive of five hundred (500) verses without express written permission of the publisher, providing the verses do not amount to a complete book of the Bible nor do the verses quoted account for twenty-five percent (25%) or more of the total text of the work in which they are quoted.

When the NIV is quoted in works that exercise the above fair use clause, notice of copyright must appear on the title or copyright page or opening screen of the work (whichever is appropriate) as follows:

THE HOLY BIBLE, NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION®, NIV® Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.™ Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

These Scriptures are copyrighted by the Biblica, Inc.™ and have been made available on the Internet for your personal use only. Any other use including, but not limited to, copying or reposting on the Internet is prohibited. These Scriptures may not be altered or modified in any form and must remain in their original context. These Scriptures may not be sold or otherwise offered for sale.




hope it helps!


ZF

Very helpful information, ZF. Thanks very much for passing it along.

[jandrew]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Always?

This would force the author to avoid writing anything that the publisher, or a literary executor, didn't like. I would distrust an author who sold out their intellectual independence in this manner.

Note: I said always *best* if you get permission, and not *only* if you get permission. Being denied permission to use excerpts does not prevent an author from still applying *fair use* policy anyway, nor does obtaining permission invalidate intellectual independence in any way, shape, or form.

Here are a couple more links the OP might find helpful (if they are actually interested):

http://janefriedman.com/2012/01/23/permissions/
http://www.mbbp.com/resources/iptech/fair_use.html

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by jandrew

Note: I said always *best* if you get permission, and not *only* if you get permission. Being denied permission to use excerpts does not prevent an author from still applying *fair use* policy anyway, nor does obtaining permission invalidate intellectual independence in any way, shape, or form.

Here are a couple more links the OP might find helpful (if they are actually interested):

http://janefriedman.com/2012/01/23/permissions/
http://www.mbbp.com/resources/iptech/fair_use.html

Yes, the OP is interested. Thanks for the links. They were excellent, esp. the second one. I'm only going to be using a few lines so I won't come anywhere near getting into trouble (the second article says under 10% or under 250 words (in a book-length book) shouldln't be a problem). Like I said I'm just going to use a line or two.

Good to know all this stuff. Thanks.

[Gregg Bell]

Someone was telling me that when I use a quote to say something like:

You can do references in-text, as giving a brief quote from "Johnson," then, at the end of the quote, have (Johnson 2004, p. 12). Then at the end of the book have a bibliography where you give all the bibliographic detail.

But I told him that the great majority of non-fiction books I've read have a more casual method. In fact, the first book I pulled off the shelf is a book called Little Bets by Peter Sims. It's published by Free Press, which is a division of Simon & Schuster. Here's the first quoting I paged to: (pg 53) (and the word in parentheses I'm changing because I don't want to get censored--lol)

The use of prototypes, often the rougher the better, also greatly facilitates overcoming the blank-page problem. Novelist Anne Lamott believes that every good writer writes what she calls (lousy) first drafts. "The only way I can get anything written at all is to write really, really (lousy) first drafts," Lamott writes in Bird by Bird. Just get it down on paper, she recommneds. Write like a child, whatever comes to your mind. "All good writers write them. This is how they end up with good second drafts and terrific third drafts."

The italics are the author's. There are no foot or end notes. There is no bibliography at the end of the book.

Then a paragraph later Sims writes a block paragraph that is in the flow of his talking about Lamott so the reader assumes it's also from Bird by Bird but he makes no attribution whatsoever.

Now I'm not holding this guy up as doing the referencing ideally, but I am holding him up as what most non-fiction books (that are not academic in nature) that I read are like.

If this passes Simon & Schuster's test, don't you think it would be okay for me?

[jandrew]

Originally Posted by Gregg Bell

...
The italics are the author's. There are no foot or end notes. There is no bibliography at the end of the book.
...
If this passes Simon & Schuster's test, don't you think it would be okay for me?

Well, a very cursory look online shows that Little Bets has a Notes section, which does, in fact, provide citation information for the Bird by Bird book, as well as quoted material from a talk she gave in 2010.

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by jandrew

Well, a very cursory look online shows that Little Bets has a Notes section, which does, in fact, provide citation information for the Bird by Bird book, as well as quoted material from a talk she gave in 2010.

My bad. I missed the notes section in the back.