MobileRead December 2011 - Book Club Vote

[sun surfer]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

I'm a bit torn on this:

It turned out that for November, by not listening to the comments made, and voting for what I really wanted instead, I lost out all together. If I had followed the discussions advice, my 2nd choice would have won instead.

Not necessarily. Because if the vote were public, you may not have been the only one to cast a different vote. A book not in the top two from the hidden vote may have won, or the one that won by tie-breaker with the hidden vote may have won outright by a larger margin.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

That be as it may if a blind poll is to be the new norm that is fine. Despite a late scare none of the books that made it through to the polling is in the absolutely no interest (and isn't even a classic) status for me. At least in the US almost all elections are between two candidates so the analogy is not quite there.

Speak for yourself. In Canada, you could have a lot of choices. In my Ottawa riding back in 2000, these were my choices on the election ballot:

• Liberal Mac Harb 22,710
• New Democrat Heather-Jane Robertson 13,516
• Canadian Alliance David Brown 10,167
• Progressive Conservative Beverly Mitchell 7,505
• Green Chris Bradshaw 1,531
• Marijuana Brad Powers 813
• Canadian Action Carla Marie Dancey 210
• Communist Marvin Glass 139
• Natural Law Neil Paterson 111
• Marxist–Leninist Mistahi Corkill 66

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

Maybe we should do a separate poll on hidden votes.

Any suggestions as to the options?

1. All Book Club Polls in 2012 should be Hidden

2. All Book club Polls in 2012 should be Viewable

3. 2012 Book Club Polls should be toggled each month between Viewable and Hidden (so half will be hidden, and half will be viewable).

4. Other - Please explain in comments.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

My point exactly about the advantage of open polling results.

Originally Posted by sun surfer

Not necessarily. Because if the vote were public, you may not have been the only one to cast a different vote. A book not in the top two from the hidden vote may have won, or the one that won by tie-breaker with the hidden vote may have won outright by a larger margin.

But I don't want people to only vote for what is going to win. I want them to vote for what they really want to read. I was referring to being torn about the discussion/campaigning in the threads.

It just so happened that my first choice had already been read by many of the people here, so it was not chosen. At least 3 people mentioned having read my first choice, but I chose to ignore them and vote for it anyway, not knowing that so many other people also liked my 2nd choice. A public poll would not have helped me, because, I had still voted relatively early.

I personally like having the polls hidden. I find it more interesting, exciting, and fun that way.

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

Speak for yourself. In Canada, you could have a lot of choices. In my Ottawa riding back in 2000, these were my choices on the election ballot:

• Liberal Mac Harb 22,710
• New Democrat Heather-Jane Robertson 13,516
• Canadian Alliance David Brown 10,167
• Progressive Conservative Beverly Mitchell 7,505
• Green Chris Bradshaw 1,531
• Marijuana Brad Powers 813
• Canadian Action Carla Marie Dancey 210
• Communist Marvin Glass 139
• Natural Law Neil Paterson 111
• Marxist–Leninist Mistahi Corkill 66

Yes, as I said I was speaking of the Tweedle Dee vs. Tweedle Dum elections in the US. I must say that it looks like the Canadian Communist and Marxist-Leninist parties need to get together instead of competing. But then that is often how it goes;

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...89#post1843189

Originally Posted by Nyssa

1. All Book Club Polls in 2012 should be Hidden

2. All Book club Polls in 2012 should be Viewable

3. 2012 Book Club Polls should be toggled each month between Viewable and Hidden (so half will be hidden, and half will be viewable).

4. Other - Please explain in comments.

Sounds like a plan.

[dreams]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

I wonder if Alex could fix it so that the poll and the thread go up at the same time. It takes time to create a poll and double-check to make sure there are no errors, but the way the software is set up, you have to submit the thread first, then create the poll, and every time—at least it seems like every time—before you've had time to create the poll, somebody inevitably posts and asks, "Where's the POLL?" Patience, Grasshopper! There's no way to create the poll until after the thread is created and posted.

And now I'm off to Front Page it.

Try creating the thread, with a direction (see options below) to close the thread when posted. Then create the poll, check everything, and post with a direction to reopen the thread. See if that works.

Originally Posted by Nyssa

1. All Book Club Polls in 2012 should be Hidden

2. All Book club Polls in 2012 should be Viewable

3. 2012 Book Club Polls should be toggled each month between Viewable and Hidden (so half will be hidden, and half will be viewable).

4. Other - Please explain in comments.

That looks like it may cover all those comments that have been brought up. We'll see what the "Grand Muckity-Muck" thinks.

[orlok]

I agree that it should be up to us if we want to reveal our selection in the discussions, but I do quite like the blind vote, as it means we will vote for what we really like, rather than the least worst option.

That said, I see where Nyssa is coming from - if you know your preferred option is unlikely to win, at least you can support another preferred option. So I guess I'm torn on this aspect of it.

[issybird]

I'm undecided.

I've read all the books. Iliad, Scarlet Letter, Heart of Darkness and To the Lighthouse seem most worth a reread, especially in that I expect I'd get much more from them this time around. My heart says The Iliad, for the grand sweep of the narrative. But December and all that and I've been running behind on the book clubs. Heart of Darkness is short.

It's at these times that an open poll is useful, although I'm willing to read any of the nominees.

[sun surfer]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

My point exactly about the advantage of open polling results.

As with Nyssa (but for different reasons), I am also torn. Open polling, in a way, skews mostly to those who quickly vote first, because they determine the "front runners" that the strategic voters will wait to decide on.

Any strategic voter will only matter if a vote is close. I haven't looked, and someone else may look and let us know, but if I were guessing, I'd say in the last year the vote was close enough for a strategic voter to change the outcome maybe at most a third of the votes? So a strategic voter's votes will really only ever matter a portion of the time, and even then an opposing strategic voter may cancel any strategic voter's vote out. Then there are the non-strategic late voters, whose votes seem to often be cast into the nether in an open vote if not for a leading candidate, since those waiting strategic voters wouldn't think of voting for a selection that wasn't already in the running to win.

So really, the quick first voters' votes tend to matter the most, which in a way doesn't seem so equal.

And hidden polls are more exciting to find out the results when the poll is over.

On the other hand, simply from a "fun" point of view, open voting leads to more interesting conversation while the vote is going on, and often in the past year the majority of our conversations, for better or worse, have occurred during voting. There have been a few very close votes that were a lot of fun to watch progress (May!).

This is why I like the idea of the simple compromise of switching back and forth between the months. So for instance in 2012, January, March, May, etc. could be open and February, April, June, etc. could be hidden, and then for 2013 they could be reversed (to allow each category to experience each type of vote), and so on and so forth.

The only thing is this would be a bit more for Tom to keep up with (he'd have to be careful each month to post the right kind of poll), so it's also pending his approval.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by dreams

Try creating the thread, with a direction (see options below) to close the thread when posted. Then create the poll, check everything, and post with a direction to reopen the thread. See if that works.


That looks like it may cover all those comments that have been brought up. We'll see what the "Grand Muckity-Muck" thinks.

That's a great idea, dreams. I'll give it a try. As it was, I was considering creating next month's thread in the moderation lounge, then moving it to the Book Club when the poll was ready.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

Sorry.

No problem! You've very helpful around here.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

1. All Book Club Polls in 2012 should be Hidden

2. All Book club Polls in 2012 should be Viewable

3. 2012 Book Club Polls should be toggled each month between Viewable and Hidden (so half will be hidden, and half will be viewable).

4. Other - Please explain in comments.

That sounds like a plan!

[sun surfer]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

1. All Book Club Polls in 2012 should be Hidden

2. All Book club Polls in 2012 should be Viewable

3. 2012 Book Club Polls should be toggled each month between Viewable and Hidden (so half will be hidden, and half will be viewable).

4. Other - Please explain in comments.

Yes, I like your suggestions, but without the fourth option if the poll will be binding. I'd hate for anyone to lose their vote since "other" wouldn't really be a winnable category.

And though it's a bit of "did the chicken or egg come first?", I'd suggest a hidden vote for this poll so that people vote their heart without regard to poll results so far. Perhaps also keep it open for a good while - at least two weeks or more - to give all our various members a chance to see it and vote.

[sun surfer]

Tom (or dreams, or any moderator who kept track), I'm curious as to the day-by-day results on a hidden poll. Did you keep track last month? If so, did the books that ended up with the most votes at the end always have the most votes? Or do you think the voting seemed to go back and forth more? Did you notice more later votes cast for books not in the lead than in open polling months?

Perhaps one of you who can view results could manually keep a tally of the day-by-day results for this month and post them once the poll is over, so we can see how things progressed. I know it'd be a bit of work for one of you to do it, but it'd be very informative for us.

[sun surfer]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

But I don't want people to only vote for what is going to win. I want them to vote for what they really want to read. I was referring to being torn about the discussion/campaigning in the threads.

It just so happened that my first choice had already been read by many of the people here, so it was not chosen. At least 3 people mentioned having read my first choice, but I chose to ignore them and vote for it anyway, not knowing that so many other people also liked my 2nd choice. A public poll would not have helped me, because, I had still voted relatively early.

I personally like having the polls hidden. I find it more interesting, exciting, and fun that way.

Oh yes, my bad, I did misread!