Kindle DX dissapointments (lacking touch, WiFi, unlocked-3G, BT, stand...)

[Slow_hand]

How many students do you know have $500 for an e-book reader...

I've got to buy my son a MacBookpro for college this fall which is waaaayyyy more than that. If the kid needs it, Mom and Pop will spring for it.

[Charbax]

Originally Posted by radiationman

With that feature list why are you even looking at an e-reader? With the exception of the cell modem you're describing a TabletPC...

Yes I find the DX to be disappointing, but not because it's missing the features you list.

Touchscreen, WiFi, we have those features on the Irex Digital Reader 1000S for not much more expensive than the Kindle DX.

In my opinion, Amazon had no excuse not to include touchscreen wacom stylus input and full WiFi or international 3G modem support.

[Talldog]

Originally Posted by Charbax

Touchscreen, WiFi, we have those features on the Irex Digital Reader 1000S for not much more expensive than the Kindle DX.

The 1000S ($749) doesn't have WiFi, and costs $260 more than the DX ($489). That's a lot of money for a digitizer. The 1000SW has the digitizer and WiFi, but goes for $849, and as far as I know isn't even available yet.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by Talldog

The 1000S ($749) doesn't have WiFi, and costs $260 more than the DX ($489). That's a lot of money for a digitizer. The 1000SW has the digitizer and WiFi, but goes for $849, and as far as I know isn't even available yet.

The DR1000S now costs $859. The DR1000SW has been indefinitely delayed for undisclosed reasons. My guess is that iRex has been unable to make a web browser work, although this is now relatively simple to do. Note that iRex never released a web browser for the iLiad.

[radiationman]

Originally Posted by Charbax

In my opinion, Amazon had no excuse not to include touchscreen wacom stylus input and full WiFi or international 3G modem support.

I'm betting that there are a lot of reasons why international 3G modem support isn't included - most of them related to why Amazon doesn't officially sell Kindles outside the US... Why does Amazon need to add international support to a device that is only being produced for consumption in the US? Yes Americans do travel internationally but so what? That's like telling electronics makers that their device is a let down because it's only wired to accept 110v current...

If Amazon doesn't have the deals in place to sell e-books outside the US to the Kindle why should they worry about international 3G on the device? Even better - Kindle is a CDMA device - but if it was going to support the international standards it needs to include either GSM, HSDPA, UMTS, or even LTE - a radio that isn't built in to the device... Plus that also means making accommodations for a SIM card slot as well... Keeping it CDMA? How many CDMA carriers outside the US would Amazon need to cut deals with? If Amazon isn't planning on selling the Kindle outside the US why bother with this?

[radiationman]

Originally Posted by Slow_hand

I've got to buy my son a MacBookpro for college this fall which is waaaayyyy more than that. If the kid needs it, Mom and Pop will spring for it.

Are you looking for a son to adopt?

[InlawBiker]

Originally Posted by Slow_hand

I've got to buy my son a MacBookpro for college this fall which is waaaayyyy more than that. If the kid needs it, Mom and Pop will spring for it.

That is excellent of you... It should last your son the whole college career, esp. if you bought the extended warranty.

Anyhow it's not too hard to do the math. If you're pursuing a science degree where the books are $100+, then it's not uncommon to spend $500+ per semester on books, or $300-$350 per quarter. A $500 device that buys books for half-price pays for itself rather quickly. I have only an English degree so I'm not qualified to tell you the break-even point

Although at this point in the market evolution, not every book will be available for a Kindle or even a PC. Another point is that the people selling the books are under no incentive to save anybody money by switching to a new medium.

Greg.

[Charbax]

Originally Posted by Talldog

The 1000S ($749) doesn't have WiFi, and costs $260 more than the DX ($489). That's a lot of money for a digitizer. The 1000SW has the digitizer and WiFi, but goes for $849, and as far as I know isn't even available yet.

Irex probably sells in the 100s of times less devices than Amazon. Economies of scale would lower the prices.

I am sure that the Wacom touchscreen wouldn't add much cost to the device if manufactured by the hundreds of thousands of pieces like Amazon would when they promote their new products on their frontpage at amazon.com the worlds biggest online retailer.

Adding WiFi in such a product is not expensive either. It's actually very optimized and cheap these days. The only concern sometimes is R&D required to make sure that there wouldn't be interference between the WiFi and the 3G modem in the same device, as well as R&D optimizations done with hardware WiFi/3G on/off switches and so on to optimize the power consumption of those wireless access systems, since those are the biggest power draw of such devices.

But anyways, I believe Amazon has no excuse not to do it. Unless of course Amazon would quickly release a Kindle DXTW or something, that adds Touch, adds WiFi and unlockes the 3G modem.

The solution to the internationalization of the 3G modem would be for the hardware engineers to design a clever 3G modem module slot somewhere on the device, all utilizing the same standard antennae or even have the antennae be user replaceable, and then make it possible for users worldwide to just buy the 3G modem module that works for them.

The Amazon website is available in many more countries, so even though book publishing and licencing is a huge pile of mess, Amazon charges a quite unsubsidized price for their hardware as it is, there is no need claim that the egg is needed before the chicken. Amazon needs to put the device on the worldwide markets and then make it open standards compliant (blogs, newspapers, pdf, html, txt, jpg, etc..) and then services will automatically come to it and more monetization can happen. Without a device, nothing can happen.

My only explanation is that for some reason, Amazon is not interested in selling more Kindles. At least not yet.

[Gideon]

My only explanation is that for some reason, Amazon is not interested in selling more Kindles.

Yep. Clearly. Silly Amazon.

[Slow_hand]

They can always lower the price if they sell less than forecast and hope for more sales but it's not possible for them to raise the price if sales are greater than anticipated.

[Gideon]

Marketing is more complicated than these things. There's other issues involved... it's not just "how many can we sell" it's "at what price can we sell them" and get the most bang for our buck, how can we soften the market for future items, what kind of deals can we make with hardware manufacturers, what kind of legal situations will we be in if we operate in other markets, do we have a big enough catalog to serve these markets, etc.

It's all much more complicated than we talk about it here. And given Amazon's reputation, they probably know what they're doing better than we do.

I think it'd be the best thing for everyone if Amazon opened up, at least, other English speaking markets - Australia, Canada, England, New Zealand, etc. but there may be issues we're not aware of, etc.

[andrys]

Originally Posted by Gideon

Meh....

Also.... what's the deal with people complaining about the price so much. I mean, yeah, I don't like it - but it's in keeping with the tech prices right now. It's not excessive or anything. How much is the big Iliad, again...?

The Irex Illiad, the only existing e-Ink device near in size to that DX, is $860 without wireless (which is not an option).

Also, it has very slow response time for the stylus input, takes 40 seconds to boot up even in the 2nd edition, and has nightmarish customer support.

Here's a review on it:
http://www.alexonlinux.com/irex-tech...re-than-a-year

Also, on my blog I've an entry re David Pogue's online review of the amazing Novatel MiFi as well as a reminder that he once found the Kindle 2's pricing unfathomable (in his review of it) but that review no longer says that and explains just how expensive 24/7 cellular wireless is.

The MiFi is something that most of us may want for our netbooks or laptops but even then the minimal pricing is $40/month.

There have been many stories about AT&T's programs to offer netbooks by Acer and other companies for $100 with 2 year wireless contracts for $50 to $60/mo.

So, paying $489 one time for the DX, with its quite large screen ($130 more than for the K2) is not that unreasonable. The iPhone Basic service with web data is $60/mo. These are costs that go on and on. The new iPhone is $200 but with the monthly access cost of $70 now WITHOUT text messaging ($5 more) brings it to over $1,000 in the first year-- and the costs continue.

I say all this as someone who's pretty happy with the smaller size K2 and am not planning to get a DX.

As for webbing on the Kindle, there are plenty of mobile versions of sites now and the options of Basic, Advanced, and Advanced with Javascript, and Disabling or Enabling images can get you decent experiences when on the street and needing data.

Even at home in another room, I was reading a Wired RSS feed and following their links. In Advanced mode, the words are tiny so you get the full screen. Not needed. I switched to Basic and paid attention to the reality that the left column contents will show up first and need to be page-turned to get to the article body but it doesn't take that much time and the words are in normal size and the font is not shaded but black. Wire's photographs are in really good resolution and show up very nicely on the Kindle, though you can disable images if you're in a hurry.

On the street the other day, we needed to find an Italian restaurant for a special occasion, as the one we were at would not open for another half hour. I went to m.yelp.com and got a list of the ones nearby, summaries, and user-reviews. And found a great restaurant we'd ignored all these years.

24/7 wireless for no monthly charges has to be factored in as a huge feature when complaining about $360 for "an e-reader" or $489 for one that has a considerably larger screen and keeps the wireless feature.

- Andrys
http://kindleworld.blogspot.com

[andrys]

Originally Posted by Charbax

Touchscreen, WiFi, we have those features on the Irex Digital Reader 1000S for not much more expensive than the Kindle DX.

In my opinion, Amazon had no excuse not to include touchscreen wacom stylus input and full WiFi or international 3G modem support.

Touchscreen is available for the same i-ink screen, with the Sony PRS-700 (though theirs is 8 shades of grade), and here's Pogue's writeup on it, which merely says what almost every other review has said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/te...gue-email.html - bad loss of clarity to the extra layer.

Another article on the Sonys yesterday compared the Sony 505 vs the 700 and had a photo showing the differences, which I first thought was due to lighting but the frame or bezel? of the 700 indicates otherwise, as far as main cause. I have that in an entry from last night. It's no wonder the 700 has not been selling particularly well and I've seen reports of people going from the 700 to the 505.

The newer Iliad 1000s is about $750 without the WiFi/Bluetooth/3G?

What's the verdict on the 1000s here? Worth $750? With 3G, implemented, worth the $860?

So many are waiting on Plastic Logic, not due out until 2010 and they do not plan email or a web browser for it.

- Andrys
http://kindleworld.blogspot.com

[fugazied]

Patience young grasshopper! They are getting it right gradually, and even though it is a nice little device, it's easy to see what it's lacking.
Within a couple of years we will have fully featured touch devices which will handle all of our internet and reading needs. But we are still waiting for costs of the various components to come down and for the battery technology to improve.
They can create a device with fast wifi and blutooth but if they suck the battery so quickly that you get 2 hrs life from it, its not really feasible.

[LwoodY2K]

Originally Posted by radiationman

How many students do you know have $500 for an e-book reader...

I spent more than that on books some semesters (average was probably $400/semester). If PDF versions were half the cost I was paying, then I'd save the cost of the DX in ~3 semesters.