Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-19-2012, 07:21 PM   #1
NightBird
Wizard
NightBird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NightBird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NightBird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NightBird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NightBird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NightBird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NightBird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NightBird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NightBird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NightBird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NightBird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
NightBird's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,364
Karma: 3724797
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: California
Device: KPW, KF, KF HD, iPod Touch
Random House Says Libraries Own Their Ebooks

Teleread is reporting this today. From the original article:

Quote:
For those who have been paying close attention, this is not news. It came up at the Massachusetts Library Association conference in May, it was bruited about at the American Library Association (ALA) annual meeting in Anaheim in June, and it was mentioned in a “corner office” interview I had with Skip Dye, Random House’s vice president of library and academic marketing and sales, during LJ’s virtual ebook summit on Wednesday. But the potential implications of Random House’s stance are not receiving enough attention and consideration.

“This is our business model: we sell copies of our ebooks to an approved list of library wholesalers, and those wholesalers are supposed to resell them to libraries. In our view, this purchase constitutes ownership of the book by the library. It is not a license.”
http://lj.libraryjournal.com/2012/10...ks-lj-insider/
NightBird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 10:28 PM   #2
kevinp
Fanatic
kevinp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kevinp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kevinp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kevinp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kevinp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kevinp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kevinp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kevinp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kevinp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kevinp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kevinp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kevinp's Avatar
 
Posts: 579
Karma: 3549018
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan
Device: Kindle Scribe, Kindle PW (10th & 11th gen); Fire HD 10
That's been my stance all along too!
kevinp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 04:03 AM   #3
Quexos
Member Retired
Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,999
Karma: 11348924
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Limbo
Device: none
If libraries actually own books then it would mean they can do whatever they want with it. like change the text or the author's name, copy and resell to make money, even demand that the publishers stop selling their "property" ...

Makes no sense to me, though I'm ok with it
Quexos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 06:49 AM   #4
murraypaul
Interested Bystander
murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,725
Karma: 19728152
Join Date: Jun 2008
Device: Note 4, Kobo One
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quexos View Post
If libraries actually own books then it would mean they can do whatever they want with it. like change the text or the author's name, copy and resell to make money, even demand that the publishers stop selling their "property" ...
Does the fact that libraries own physical copies of books mean they can do any of those things? No.
He means own their eBooks, not own the rights to the book itself.
murraypaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 07:44 AM   #5
fjtorres
Grand Sorcerer
fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
He seems to be talking about the delivery vehicle: the files.
And I suspect what he means is that libraries should be able to take those files out of whatever lending service they use (*cough*Overdrive*cough*) and move them to another service, even one they build and operate themselves.

This is a question that has been open for a while now because of the recent overdrive price increases that have prompted some libraries to look to 3M or other solutions.

In practical terms, what RH is saying is that just because a library bought their ebooks through overdrive they are not necessarily stuck with Overdrive forever. *They* have no problem with a library demanding their collection and taking it elsewhere.
Now Overdrive and *their* contracts...
fjtorres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 07:45 AM   #6
Apache
Readaholic
Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Apache's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,127
Karma: 89858112
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: South Georgia
Device: Surface Pro 6 / Galaxy Tab A 8"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quexos View Post
If libraries actually own books then it would mean they can do whatever they want with it. like change the text or the author's name, copy and resell to make money, even demand that the publishers stop selling their "property" ...

Makes no sense to me, though I'm ok with it
Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
Does the fact that libraries own physical copies of books mean they can do any of those things? No.
He means own their eBooks, not own the rights to the book itself.
I think he meant it as a joke see the smilie
Apache
Apache is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 01:09 PM   #7
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
Does the fact that libraries own physical copies of books mean they can do any of those things? No.
He means own their eBooks, not own the rights to the book itself.
Exactly. And this is the crucial issue in understanding what electronic products are and how they must be managed for the future. Basically there is no difference in a physical product an an electronic product from a legal standpoint.
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 03:57 AM   #8
Quexos
Member Retired
Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quexos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,999
Karma: 11348924
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Limbo
Device: none
Which is what having a license on something is all about ...
When you actually own, it's yours in every possible way.
if not, then you don't own the stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
Does the fact that libraries own physical copies of books mean they can do any of those things? No.
He means own their eBooks, not own the rights to the book itself.
A semi-joke if you don't mind.
Obviously they cannot fully own the books to the extent of what I said but insisting on them owning the books makes me question what owning actually means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apache View Post
I think he meant it as a joke see the smilie
Apache

Last edited by Quexos; 10-21-2012 at 03:59 AM.
Quexos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 01:24 PM   #9
Andrew H.
Grand Master of Flowers
Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,201
Karma: 8389072
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Naptown
Device: Kindle PW, Kindle 3 (aka Keyboard), iPhone, iPad 3 (not for reading)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quexos View Post
Which is what having a license on something is all about ...
When you actually own, it's yours in every possible way.
if not, then you don't own the stuff.
That's not true at all. Ownership is always a collection of rights to your property, but rarely all of them.

I own my house and the land it sits on, but I can't tear it down and build a gas station due to zoning requirements. I can't refuse to sell it to someone based on their race. I can't grow marijuana on it. I can't let it become dilapidated. If I do repairs, they have to be up to a certain standard and meet code; for more serious repairs and renovations I would need pre-approval by the city. For certain work I would need to hire a licensed contractor and have the work inspected by the city.
Andrew H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 02:58 PM   #10
fjtorres
Grand Sorcerer
fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew H. View Post
That's not true at all. Ownership is always a collection of rights to your property, but rarely all of them.

I own my house and the land it sits on, but I can't tear it down and build a gas station due to zoning requirements. I can't refuse to sell it to someone based on their race. I can't grow marijuana on it. I can't let it become dilapidated. If I do repairs, they have to be up to a certain standard and meet code; for more serious repairs and renovations I would need pre-approval by the city. For certain work I would need to hire a licensed contractor and have the work inspected by the city.
In most european countries you wouldn't even own any minerals or resources underneath your property.
Property rights are important and protecting them is a cornerstone of modern economies but they are never absolute simply because property doesn't exit in a vacuum.
fjtorres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 06:23 PM   #11
Anabana
Zealot
Anabana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anabana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anabana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anabana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anabana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anabana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anabana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anabana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anabana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anabana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anabana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Anabana's Avatar
 
Posts: 109
Karma: 2735606
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Device: Kindle Paperwhite, Kindle Fire 7" & 10"; 11"(?)-12" Lenovo laptop
This coming from one of the big publishers makes HarperCollins appear just that much more off-base (and greedy) with their stance of 26 reads per purchase for libraries.
Anabana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 01:30 PM   #12
jersysman
Wizard
jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
jersysman's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,747
Karma: 3761220
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Device: T1 Red, Kindle Fire, Kindle PW, PW2, Nook HD+, Kobo Mini, Aura HD
I hope the big publishers continue make each other look bad. After all, they have done enough to make all of them very d**n bad looking.
jersysman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 04:06 AM   #13
Fbone
Is that a sandwich?
Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 8,186
Karma: 100500000
Join Date: Jun 2010
Device: Nook Glowlight Plus
Random House VP explains what he meant when using the term "own." It turns out the libraries don't own their ebooks. A license with benefits.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...own-them.shtml
Fbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 09:15 AM   #14
fjtorres
Grand Sorcerer
fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fbone View Post
Random House VP explains what he meant when using the term "own." It turns out the libraries don't own their ebooks. A license with benefits.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...own-them.shtml
As I said above, all they mean is the libraries can take the licenses they buy (which they do own) from overdrive to 3M or elsewhere. Unlimited lending was never on the table.
fjtorres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 09:20 AM   #15
elemenoP
Wizard
elemenoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elemenoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elemenoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elemenoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elemenoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elemenoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elemenoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elemenoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elemenoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elemenoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.elemenoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,717
Karma: 3790058
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NYC
Device: Kindle Paperwhite, Sony 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
As I said above, all they mean is the libraries can take the licenses they buy (which they do own) from overdrive to 3M or elsewhere. Unlimited lending was never on the table.
When a library purchases a license from Overdrive, they are entering into a contract with Overdrive. Wouldn't it be Overdrive who can say whether the license is transferable or not?

eP
elemenoP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ex-Random House exec interviewed: ebooks and more fjtorres General Discussions 23 06-30-2012 08:14 PM
Free Audiobooks from Random House! skinmaan Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) 4 06-19-2012 02:20 PM
What's up with Random House? Skydog General Discussions 9 04-08-2010 01:05 AM
Seriously thoughtful Random House: "Guter Start für eBooks" netseeker Lounge 1 06-16-2009 04:01 PM
Random House Competition Gibbo Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) 1 02-02-2009 01:55 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:47 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.