How do you feel about DRM? - Page 3

pwalker8 · 02-06-2012, 09:54 PM

I voted should be done away with, but basically, as long as I can strip the DRM off, I don't really care. Ultimately, I think DRM will disappear over time. It's ineffective, given that most books can be scanned relatively easily. Music eventually gave in on DRM and I think movies and ebooks will also.

calibrated · 02-06-2012, 09:59 PM

I view DRM the same way that I view a virus--I remove it as soon as possible. Thank God for Calibre plugins...

BWinmill · 02-06-2012, 10:07 PM

DRM is about controlling otherwise legitimate use of a product, and has nothing to do with piracy. In that sense, it is evil.

Think about it: one cracked copy completely negates the anti-piracy objectives of DRM. We have known that for decades.

Giggleton · 02-06-2012, 11:01 PM

A perfect digital rights management system would enable compensation to the creator in a fair and just way while allowing everyone access to everything. DRM is not dead, DRM has yet to be born.

Katsunami · 02-07-2012, 12:47 AM

The content industry wants full control, and they want to be paid for each time you use a product.

You know what the perfect drm system would be? Don't sell any books. All books are available at all times. Make a reader with only a reading application on it, that downloads a book a page at a time while you read. A 100 page book costing $3 will cost $0.03 per page you read. You pay per flipped page (staying on a page for 5 seconds counts as a read), and each month the total will be charged to your credit card. Flipping backward will charge you too, of course, because you read a page twice. Flipping forward again will of course charge you another time, if you're not fast enough.

The industry would love this, but nobody will ever accept it.

sabredog · 02-07-2012, 01:37 AM

My life is DRM, I licensed it right?

Joy736 · 02-07-2012, 01:48 AM

Drm? What is drm? The e-book discription always tells me the book has drm, but it always magically disapears the second the book arrives at my computer

Asawi · 02-07-2012, 02:04 AM

Actually, I should have voted "other", because I think DRM on purchased books are "evil". You should be able to do fixes to a book you own without having to strip DRM.
Library books, well they need some sort of protection.

Yapyap · 02-07-2012, 05:07 AM

I voted "Other". As Asawi above, I think DRM has a place for library books - although considering how easy it is to remove, I wouldn't say it's needed "for protection" but just to enable the whole loaning mechanism. I assume at least that it's the DRM that enables a library loan to expire and the book to be "returned" automatically.

For purchased books, though... for now it's "only" an irritation (and I don't buy from iBookstore) which always I remove at the earliest opportunity, but in principle, I dislike it strongly as something that won't stop piracy but inconveniences honest readers.

altorno · 02-07-2012, 05:26 AM

i agree on library books. but in other intances it can be really annoying. but as with all digital media it is almost impossible to stop piracy, there will always be ways around.

spindlegirl · 02-07-2012, 05:46 AM

I do agree about Library books. The whole point is that they expire after the date specified. No different than with paper books.

I actually hadn't thought of library books when I made the poll, I was mostly thinking about books we own.

Klim Chugunkin · 02-07-2012, 09:50 AM

I never "bought" and will never "buy" a book infested with DRM. Do you want to send a message to the publishers? Vote with your wallet, they won't hear any other argument.

ilovejedd · 02-07-2012, 10:29 AM

DRM per se isn't evil. It's the very restrictive methods of implementation of current DRM that suck. I've used services that use social DRM. There's an unobtrusive watermark on the file but the file is viewable on any device that supports the file format (in my case - PDF). No activation or special software required.

Anything that requires an activation server, though, I wouldn't go near unless it's possible to remove the DRM.

CyGuy · 02-07-2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

I do agree about Library books. The whole point is that they expire after the date specified. No different than with paper books.

I actually hadn't thought of library books when I made the poll, I was mostly thinking about books we own.

I agree that some form of DRM may be needed for library ebooks, within limits. Currently the publishers are able to dictate terms to the library: ebooks "wear out" after X reads, pay-per-read, etc. So long as this nonsense is not allowed to continue I would not have a problem with encrypting library ebooks.

bill_mchale · 02-07-2012, 02:04 PM

DRM doesn't work to stop piracy of books. DRM will never work to stop piracy of books. DRM can never work to stop piracy of books. The biggest problem in piracy is torrent sites and websites that host pirated materials. In both cases, it is not sufficient to merely stop some cases of piracy (i.e., the casual person who simply wants to send the file to a friend), it is necessary to stop the hard core pirates.

DRM software for books essentially is a cryptographic system where the cypher text, the plain text and the key must all be available to the end user. At most all that remains is for the attacker to reverse engineer the cryptographic system... probably by far the easiest step in breaking a cryptographic system (i.e., in the history of cryptography, finding out what system was used was always the easy part).

But even assuming that the cryptographic system could not be broken, there is nothing to stop the dedicated pirate from scanning the work in question, or even typing it in manually; it may seem like a lot of work, but I bet a skilled typist could type most any novel in less than a week.

Therefore, since DRM will never live up to its stated reason for being, it is evil and should go away.

--
Bill

View Poll Results: How do you feel about DRM?
DRM doesn't bother me. As long as I can read a book on a computer I don't care.	18	6.41%
DRM is evil and should be done away with entirely.	200	71.17%
Quit whining about DRM, it's a dead horse.	13	4.63%
If DRM were a dead horse, DRM would be dead.	9	3.20%
DRM is a useful tool that prevents piracy.	4	1.42%
Some other option not thought of for this poll	37	13.17%
Voters: 281. You may not vote on this poll

02-07-2012, 05:26 AM	#40
altorno Junior Member Posts: 4 Karma: 200 Join Date: Feb 2012 Device: kindle	i agree on library books. but in other intances it can be really annoying. but as with all digital media it is almost impossible to stop piracy, there will always be ways around. Last edited by altorno; 09-12-2012 at 08:57 AM.

02-07-2012, 05:46 AM	#41
spindlegirl Wizard Posts: 1,594 Karma: 21245891 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Canada Device: Kobo Libra h20, Paperwhite 2017, Phone & Tablet w Moonreader	I do agree about Library books. The whole point is that they expire after the date specified. No different than with paper books. I actually hadn't thought of library books when I made the poll, I was mostly thinking about books we own. Last edited by spindlegirl; 02-07-2012 at 06:03 AM.

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02-06-2012, 09:54 PM	#31
pwalker8 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,195 Karma: 70314280 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2	I voted should be done away with, but basically, as long as I can strip the DRM off, I don't really care. Ultimately, I think DRM will disappear over time. It's ineffective, given that most books can be scanned relatively easily. Music eventually gave in on DRM and I think movies and ebooks will also.

02-06-2012, 09:59 PM	#32
calibrated Zealot Posts: 132 Karma: 179412 Join Date: Dec 2011 Device: Kindle 1, Kindle 3, Kindle Fire w/Aldiko	I view DRM the same way that I view a virus--I remove it as soon as possible. Thank God for Calibre plugins...

02-06-2012, 10:07 PM	#33
BWinmill Nameless Being	DRM is about controlling otherwise legitimate use of a product, and has nothing to do with piracy. In that sense, it is evil. Think about it: one cracked copy completely negates the anti-piracy objectives of DRM. We have known that for decades.

02-06-2012, 11:01 PM	#34
Giggleton Banned Posts: 1,687 Karma: 4368191 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Oregon Device: Kindle3	A perfect digital rights management system would enable compensation to the creator in a fair and just way while allowing everyone access to everything. DRM is not dead, DRM has yet to be born.

02-07-2012, 12:47 AM	#35
Katsunami Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,111 Karma: 34000001 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: KPW1, KA1	The content industry wants full control, and they want to be paid for each time you use a product. You know what the perfect drm system would be? Don't sell any books. All books are available at all times. Make a reader with only a reading application on it, that downloads a book a page at a time while you read. A 100 page book costing $3 will cost $0.03 per page you read. You pay per flipped page (staying on a page for 5 seconds counts as a read), and each month the total will be charged to your credit card. Flipping backward will charge you too, of course, because you read a page twice. Flipping forward again will of course charge you another time, if you're not fast enough. The industry would love this, but nobody will ever accept it.

02-07-2012, 01:37 AM	#36
sabredog Geographically Restricted Posts: 2,629 Karma: 14933353 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Device: Sony PRS-T3, Kindle Voyage, iPad Air2, Nexus7v2	My life is DRM, I licensed it right?

02-07-2012, 01:48 AM	#37
Joy736 Addict Posts: 311 Karma: 1078442 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Netherlands Device: Kindle Paperwhite	Drm? What is drm? The e-book discription always tells me the book has drm, but it always magically disapears the second the book arrives at my computer

02-07-2012, 02:04 AM	#38
Asawi Gadgetoholic Posts: 1,462 Karma: 2731820 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sweden Device: Kobo Libra2, Tolino Vision 6	Actually, I should have voted "other", because I think DRM on purchased books are "evil". You should be able to do fixes to a book you own without having to strip DRM. Library books, well they need some sort of protection.

02-07-2012, 05:07 AM	#39
Yapyap Guru Posts: 861 Karma: 3543721 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Estonia Device: Kindle Paperwhite, iPad 3, Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge	I voted "Other". As Asawi above, I think DRM has a place for library books - although considering how easy it is to remove, I wouldn't say it's needed "for protection" but just to enable the whole loaning mechanism. I assume at least that it's the DRM that enables a library loan to expire and the book to be "returned" automatically. For purchased books, though... for now it's "only" an irritation (and I don't buy from iBookstore) which always I remove at the earliest opportunity, but in principle, I dislike it strongly as something that won't stop piracy but inconveniences honest readers.

02-07-2012, 09:50 AM	#42
Klim Chugunkin Enthusiast Posts: 28 Karma: 666666 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: V3+, PRS-350	I never "bought" and will never "buy" a book infested with DRM. Do you want to send a message to the publishers? Vote with your wallet, they won't hear any other argument.

02-07-2012, 10:29 AM	#43
ilovejedd hopeless n00b Posts: 5,111 Karma: 19597086 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: in the middle of nowhere Device: PW4, PW3, Libra H2O, iPad 10.5, iPad 11, iPad 12.9	DRM per se isn't evil. It's the very restrictive methods of implementation of current DRM that suck. I've used services that use social DRM. There's an unobtrusive watermark on the file but the file is viewable on any device that supports the file format (in my case - PDF). No activation or special software required. Anything that requires an activation server, though, I wouldn't go near unless it's possible to remove the DRM.

02-07-2012, 02:04 PM	#45
bill_mchale Wizard Posts: 1,451 Karma: 1550000 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Maryland, USA Device: Nook Simple Touch, HPC Evo 4G LTE	DRM doesn't work to stop piracy of books. DRM will never work to stop piracy of books. DRM can never work to stop piracy of books. The biggest problem in piracy is torrent sites and websites that host pirated materials. In both cases, it is not sufficient to merely stop some cases of piracy (i.e., the casual person who simply wants to send the file to a friend), it is necessary to stop the hard core pirates. DRM software for books essentially is a cryptographic system where the cypher text, the plain text and the key must all be available to the end user. At most all that remains is for the attacker to reverse engineer the cryptographic system... probably by far the easiest step in breaking a cryptographic system (i.e., in the history of cryptography, finding out what system was used was always the easy part). But even assuming that the cryptographic system could not be broken, there is nothing to stop the dedicated pirate from scanning the work in question, or even typing it in manually; it may seem like a lot of work, but I bet a skilled typist could type most any novel in less than a week. Therefore, since DRM will never live up to its stated reason for being, it is evil and should go away. -- Bill