Filesharing and ebooks

[kaan]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The Open Source crowd relies on copyright to protect their right to distribute without charging. Remove that, and corporations who have more money to spend can overwhelm their efforts by grabbing their code and selling the butchered corporate-locked version of it.

One of the reasons Linux got popular is that Microsoft couldn't legally grab it, inflict all sorts of Microcode into it, and distribute it with MS's logo as "THE BEST VERSION OF LINUX," which would fail horribly and convince people that Linux sucked.

Let me present an open source license that you are probably unfamiliar with.

Copyright (c) <YEAR>, <OWNER>
All rights reserved.

Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met:

* Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
* Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
* Neither the name of the <ORGANIZATION> nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.

THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND CONTRIBUTORS "AS IS" AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT HOLDER OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.

This is a BSD style license.

When Apple made OSX, they basicly took a whole lot of open source software under this kind of license, and "grabbing their code and selling the butchered corporate-locked version of it".

As for Microsoft ... where to start! Ill just mention one.
Microsoft DNS is based on bind

Even under the more restrictive GPL, Microsoft will be perfectly able to make their own Linux distribution, with logo and all, if they wish to.

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

But you're advocating for Disney to have the right to use your stories however they like, without contacting you at all about it. Copyright is what keeps them from scouring the web for good stories & scripts, and using them with impunity.

What makes you think that if copyright went away, Disney would be less powerful? Oh, they'd lose control of their works--but that's nothing compared to the amount of money they could make if they didn't have to pay anyone for use of their art.

And there'd still be plenty of artists willing to work for Disney, with work-for-hire contracts that forbid them from using their own materials for profit. There are plenty of people who do this now; there aren't going to be less of them if copyright law goes away.

Sure, and Indian and Chinese companies could sell and distribute their works for a hell of a lot less than Disney would charge, too.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

But you're advocating for Disney to have the right to use your stories however they like, without contacting you at all about it. Copyright is what keeps them from scouring the web for good stories & scripts, and using them with impunity.

What makes you think that if copyright went away, Disney would be less powerful? Oh, they'd lose control of their works--but that's nothing compared to the amount of money they could make if they didn't have to pay anyone for use of their art.

And there'd still be plenty of artists willing to work for Disney, with work-for-hire contracts that forbid them from using their own materials for profit. There are plenty of people who do this now; there aren't going to be less of them if copyright law goes away.

I'm not sure I advocated that. I think I actually said that's why I don't release my stuff under PD at the moment, because of companies like Disney and Fox and their ilk and their continuing rape of creativity.

Disney made its fortune riding the back of the PD and then selling a sickening Stepford Wives kind of Americana to children. I find them thoroughly, thoroughly evil, and they probably wouldn't go away if copyright was abandoned, but at least they'd be on an equal footing with everyone else for once. No more lobbyist in their pockets, no more extensions, no more special-favours.

[alicja]

For few days I was a proud owner of new PRS-600 now I am angry. I am a big book worm so my hubby decided that it will be more practical for me to have ebook reader. Unfortunately the only option to buy the newest books is to download illegal!!! I am leaving in Holland but do not speak Dutch. Here you have only opportunity to use bol.com with very limited offer. Ebook store non exciting in Europe, restriction in UK so what left? Piracy... I have never used this sites but now I am so angry that Sony has cheated in Europe- selling device without possibility to use it

[PieOPah]

Originally Posted by bavardage

Someone I know *ahem* pirated a copy of Good Omens by Terry Pratchett, Neil Gaiman a while back (after being a Pratchett fan) and then went on to buy 5 books by Gaiman.

PIRACY DESTROYS AUTHORS OMG!

I must admit that I have been looking for a decent pirated copy of this book (all the footers are missing from the versions I found). This is for two main reasons -

a) I am unable to buy the E-book version
b) I am not in the mood for scanning my PB version of the book

Since I am unable to do a) or b) then I will either forgo the E-book version or I will eventually scan my PB version.

I do not feel that either constitute as theft or are morally wrong since I have already purchased the book twice (I lost my first copy). I have also bought many many books of both Pratchett's and Gaimans in both PB and Digital formats and I will continue to purchase the books when they are available...

[Bob Butler]

b) I am not in the mood for scanning my PB version of the book

That's an interesting point. If I own a paper copy, I believe it is permissible for me to scan and OCR it for personal use.

If my friend also owns a copy, can I save him the time and effort of scanning his own copy by giving him my digital copy? I suspect this is illegal, but I think it is morally defensible. The author and publisher were compensated for the book.

If I check out a (paper) book from the library, what if I download a digital copy to read on my reader and then delete it when I return the paper copy to the library? This seems tougher to defend morally, but it's not a lot different than getting an ebook from the library and stripping the DRM so you can read it on an unsupported reader.

I'm not trying to play devils advocate here, I'm not sure myself what the "right" answer is.

[Vesper]

Originally Posted by PieOPah

I must admit that I have been looking for a decent pirated copy of this book (all the footers are missing from the versions I found).

Hmm... I found complete version (with footnotes) in couple of minutes. Although, they are enclosed within [] in the middle of the text.

DrS

[nboshart]

Whoa, intense debate.
O'Reilly did a study on file sharing and its effects on ebook sales, unfortunately it's $99.00 USD. Has anyone read it?

Link: http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596157876/#top

There are lots of stories of free ebooks building momentum for an author, including the one about Paulo Coehlo getting caught by his publisher torrenting his own ebook. Sometimes it works, sometimes (in the wake of Chris Anderson's 'Free' debacle) it doesn't. I think when it works, it's largely due to the author's online participation. Building community, offering people something without just taking their money.

And I absolutely disagree with anyone saying artists should not get paid. I think people should have the chance to get paid for the work they do, to tell their stories and to suggest anything else is classist. Poor people cannot both write and work; art would become nothing more than leisure time for the elite. People need to eat.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by nboshart

Whoa, intense debate.
O'Reilly did a study on file sharing and its effects on ebook sales, unfortunately it's $99.00 USD. Has anyone read it?

Link: http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596157876/#top

There are lots of stories of free ebooks building momentum for an author, including the one about Paulo Coehlo getting caught by his publisher torrenting his own ebook. Sometimes it works, sometimes (in the wake of Chris Anderson's 'Free' debacle) it doesn't. I think when it works, it's largely due to the author's online participation. Building community, offering people something without just taking their money.

And I absolutely disagree with anyone saying artists should not get paid. I think people should have the chance to get paid for the work they do, to tell their stories and to suggest anything else is classist. Poor people cannot both write and work; art would become nothing more than leisure time for the elite. People need to eat.

I don't think any of us pro-filesharing types are anti-payment, but I, personally think it's pointless to charge fixed prices for digital work, especially fiction. The greater questions that this debate actually fosters are:

1: If copyright as it stands is meaningless in the digital world and copyright was the guarantor for a writer to create and earn an income, then what can we replace copyright with?

2: If the barrier to sharing is so low that sharing will occur, despite any attempts to stop said sharing, how does a writer monetize their work?

My own opinion is that the creative-commons (and possibly the GPL but I haven't looked too far into that) are the best licensing solutions in the interim. The creator keeps as much control as possible, while giving the audience a fair use of the cultural artifact (copying, remixing etc). I don't think anybody, not even the most fervent copyright exponents could argue with that deal.

As to monetization I'm 99% sure that the pay-after-you-enjoy-and-what-you-deem-worthy model is the way to go. A lot of writers are experimenting with subscriptions or pay-me-x-amount to write, but I find both as cutthroat and unworkable as the old pay-before-you-enjoy model we have now.

One thing is certain, to me anyway, we can't continue with the system we have in place now. In that system both the creator and the audience are getting ripped off, only the publishers win.

[mores]

Originally Posted by nboshart

Whoa, intense debate.
O'Reilly did a study on file sharing and its effects on ebook sales, unfortunately it's $99.00 USD. Has anyone read it?

Link: http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596157876/#top

Is there a pirated version available somewhere?

[Vesper]

Originally Posted by mores

Is there a pirated version available somewhere?

Of course it is available... It just requires a bit of a digging

DrS

p.. PDF of course

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Before I got my liseuse I downloaded and read a few Cory Doctorow novels, which I then purchased in pbook. Free lead to sales.

After buying my liseuse and downloading ALL of Cory Doctorow's work for FREE I re-bought all of Cory Doctorow's available pbooks and donated them to the local library.

Just in case you weren't aware, anecdote is not the singular of data.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Crowl

Just in case you weren't aware, anecdote is not the singular of data.

And just in case you weren't aware, I don't give a crap Have a nice day, don't let the door hit you on the way out Is there no smilie for 'flipping the bird' on here ? Or maybe there should be one for 'the poster above is a condescending fool'. I think I'll make one.

And if you care to go back to where you ripped your quote from, you'll see I clearly stated they were exemplums, not hard data.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by alicja

For few days I was a proud owner of new PRS-600 now I am angry. I am a big book worm so my hubby decided that it will be more practical for me to have ebook reader. Unfortunately the only option to buy the newest books is to download illegal!!! I am leaving in Holland but do not speak Dutch. Here you have only opportunity to use bol.com with very limited offer. Ebook store non exciting in Europe, restriction in UK so what left? Piracy... I have never used this sites but now I am so angry that Sony has cheated in Europe- selling device without possibility to use it

relax, this is very easy, if you have an iphone you can get books from Amazon, you can also get books from the US sony store with gift certificates. I get mine from Disney_mommy.

[Dr. Drib]

MOBILEREAD WILL NOT TOLERATE PERSONAL ATTACKS BY ANYONE - STOP IT NOW, PLEASE - EVERYONE.

We all must play nice, or I will personally close this file.

"Thank you for your understanding."


Don
(Moderator)