Wish I could see the future (aka Newbie making a choice) - Page 3

desertgrandma · 07-21-2008, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pshrynk

Wow. Short and no blood. You're slipping, DG!

Not really. I typed another post and emailed it to myself so I wouldn't explode internally.....

Patricia · 07-21-2008, 06:46 PM

Manchuia has the great good fortune to be young. So s/he may not realise that technology breaks dowm, or may not care about preserving her/his work yet. Possibly s/he hasn't yet had the enormous irritation of seeing ten years' work becoming almost inaccessible because the Amstrad PCW (with its 3.5" disks) has a broken hard drive. It happened to me. Luckily, I found someone who could do a conversion to askii. It wasn't cheap.
Fast forward another eight years and repeat the process when the iMac died.

I'm an academic and I need my lectures, notes and books. I've now learned that data isn't safe unless you keep it in at least two different places and in transferable formats.
It all depends on your attititude to books etc. Some people (like me) want to keep most of them forever. Others see many of them as disposable, like magazines.

seajewel · 07-21-2008, 08:49 PM

Well, I went with a Sony because of the price and the unicode patch. I only buy .lit files and convert to .lrf. I don't know how long Sony will be in the ebook business, but its lack of advertising for the Sony Reader, lack of a firmware release for the PRS-505 (after promising better support for pdf?) make me skeptical. However, the 505 was significantly cheaper than going with a Kindle or Gen3, and I can read Korean files on it. And.. calibre turned out to be a hidden benefit. Absolutely love my Reader, but the unicode patch is a little messy and I wish Sony supported putting your own fonts on to it natively, especially because I don't like the sony reader native fonts. Do not look good in small print on e-ink screens.

basschick · 07-21-2008, 08:59 PM

if you're looking cheap, get a used PDA and go with mobipocket format. later if you have more money, you can always get a cybook or a better PDA or a tablet.

Barcey · 07-21-2008, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texasnightowl

If your primary concern was not having to rebuild/replace your collection as time goes by, which format and reader would you choose for today?

If this is your primary concern I personally think you should be waiting or reseting your expectations. You should at least have the expectation of having to convert in the future and you might not be happy with the resultant formatting. I downloaded a bunch of public domain books years ago but I've been spoiled by the formatting of the books at MobileRead and I'm not happy reading the old books. One of the problems with Mobi is that it has to be backward compatible with old devices so some of the graphics are too small to read properly.

I try to save my library so it can be converted in the future but I think of it as an option. I'll try to convert in the future but decide then if it's worth it. For myself I reread less then 5% of my books. I've been purchasing books for approximately 30-50% cheaper so even if I have to purchase the 5% of the books I want to read again I'm still ahead. I consider it worst case.

I've been boxing up my old paper books and looking for a charity to donate them to so in my mind I've already written off my paper book library. Who knows in 30-40 years pulling out a paper book and reading it in a park might by like pulling out a grammaphone today.

RickV · 07-22-2008, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barcey

If this is your primary concern I personally think you should be waiting or reseting your expectations. You should at least have the expectation of having to convert in the future and you might not be happy with the resultant formatting. I downloaded a bunch of public domain books years ago but I've been spoiled by the formatting of the books at MobileRead and I'm not happy reading the old books. One of the problems with Mobi is that it has to be backward compatible with old devices so some of the graphics are too small to read properly.

I try to save my library so it can be converted in the future but I think of it as an option. I'll try to convert in the future but decide then if it's worth it. For myself I reread less then 5% of my books. I've been purchasing books for approximately 30-50% cheaper so even if I have to purchase the 5% of the books I want to read again I'm still ahead. I consider it worst case.

I've been boxing up my old paper books and looking for a charity to donate them to so in my mind I've already written off my paper book library. Who knows in 30-40 years pulling out a paper book and reading it in a park might by like pulling out a grammaphone today.

Every generational leap in technology has offered many restless nights to people that keep a "library".

People had 45's, then LP's, Compact Cassette, 8 Track Tape, Cassette single, and finally CD's to which they converted to the "newest" standard....and that's just AUDIO!

Let's not even discuss Video or Data storage. While you try to stay "future proof", you eventually have to make the leap or stay even further behind.

Quite frankly, I will be happy not to be packing books every time I move.

daffy4u · 07-22-2008, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickV

People had 45's, then LP's, Compact Cassette, 8 Track Tape, Cassette single, and finally CD's to which they converted to the "newest" standard....and that's just AUDIO!

I *still* have all of those, except the 8-track tapes, and the means to listen to all of them.

Barcey · 07-22-2008, 12:24 AM

I was going to purchase a turntable that converts old vinyl LP's to MP3 but I cancelled the purchase because I decided I couldn't stand listening to the snap, crackle and pop of the old recordings. I've still got a couple of milk cases filled with LP's but if I get the urge to listen to them I'll buy the CD or MP3.

RickV · 07-22-2008, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daffy4u

I *still* have all of those, except the 8-track tapes, and the means to listen to all of them.

That's awesome, when was the last time you did?

I still have my old Elvis Albums, but I don't have a player.

Currently in the process of minimizing the crap in my life and tell you what, it feels great.

pshrynk · 07-22-2008, 08:41 AM

"Looks like I'm going to have to buy The White Album again!" -- K

manchuia · 07-22-2008, 08:42 AM

I currently have turntables in my house and bought my mom a record player so she could listen to all of her old records. I still find places to go record shopping

Yes, I am young, but considering tech has changed so dramatically in the last decade or two saying I am too young to experience the frustration of a system becoming obsolete is a tad off base. I even shared a story where my programs (that I wrote) where basically locked away on 5 1/4" disks. I don't have any programs that can pull them off, but then again I don't expect the technology to always (easily) provide me with a solution to do so.

Your story has a happier ending than mine. You found someone to do the conversion to ASCII, your work was saved, huzzah!

I understand the concern in wanting to be "future proof", but I just view it as a fairly crippling ideal to hold onto. Technology moves so fast that you either have to adjust or make a nice home for yourself and get left behind.

The latter isn't a bad thing. In fact that's what my mom is doing right now. Her computer plays all of her puzzle games, sudoku, and allows her to mess with the old version of Photoshop that she has (which can save images as .jpg for people on the newer versions. Her computer is 6 years old (I think), and she sees absolutely no reason to upgrade and neither do I. This option is the best one to ensure future proofing as you never have to worry about what the future brings.

Patricia · 07-22-2008, 08:54 AM

I can see your point, Manchuia, and agree with you to a great extent. But I can't risk losing my work, so it gets saved (in several places) and in formats that I can change and update as necessary.
I can see that everything works for your mother at the moment. But there comes a time when the computer breaks down irrevocably. If the data is in obsolete formats then it's gone forever. And that's want I want to avoid.

manchuia · 07-22-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patricia

I can see your point, Manchuia, and agree with you to a great extent. But I can't risk losing my work, so it gets saved (in several places) and in formats that I can change and update as necessary.
I can see that everything works for your mother at the moment. But there comes a time when the computer breaks down irrevocably. If the data is in obsolete formats then it's gone forever. And that's want I want to avoid.

.. it just dawned on me.

What work are you saving? It's a reader. The original work can be saved in whatever format, but you aren't creating any new work through a Sony reader or through the Kindle?

Are we talking about file formats of the future (.doc, .docx, .txt, .rtf) or are we talking about wanting to read the books that we bought from the store (.lrf, .azw) in the future.

The former I can see the concern over losing your work, the latter harks back to the question: Why should any company make sure your item is future proof?

DDHarriman · 07-22-2008, 11:40 AM

In the archives world (and libraries too) and IT btw, the rule with digital content (any) - is this:

1 - make at least 2 backups of your data, do it in timeline so short as you need, it can come to several times a day or once a day. Store one in the same building where you are, but not in the same room where you are and the other in a building away;

2 - state a cycle, in the worlds I’m talking about it is 5 years, and every 5 years check the supports where your files are and check the formats in witch they are. If one of these or both are disappearing, migrate the format to a new one, migrate the support to a new one.

It’s not 100% sure, but diminishes strongly the danger of loosing data, any data, being it your email files from 10 years ago, your audio in mp3 format, your word documents, or… your ebooks.

Best,

texasnightowl · 07-22-2008, 12:25 PM

OK, looks like I've missed quite the discussion since I had to actually go do some work yesterday. :>

As for the "future proof"/30 yrs thing...let's put it this way. I have books with me that I've had for 20 yrs or more and still pull out to re-read. If I buy an ebook, I want to be able to do the same. I am willing to have to use utilities to convert it if need be. I suppose that is part of the reason I am leaning towards the Sony - because of the Calibre software. I know if I go with the Sony I will be doing conversions and can therefore store things in other formats.

That being said, the Kindle is very tempting for a couple of reasons. 1. The number of items currently being offered by Amazon. 2. The wireless download.

My friend brought his Kindle into work today for me to play with. And, it's not as bad as my first impressions. But, with the buttons taking up so much of the sides, it is harder to pick it up/hold it without moving forward/back (at least, when it is outside the case). I am not crazy about the keyboard being on it, but it certainly is very useful for searching the Kindle store. I downloaded a few samples and it all works seamlessly and is very tempting.

But, I do have a usage question:
Is the page turn on the Sony any faster than the Kindle?
I am a fast reader and find that even when hitting the Next Page button when on the next to last line, I was still waiting for the next page to load. I'm sure I would adjust and maybe hit the next page button even earlier after spending more time with it, but was curious if the Sony was any faster.

I see also that Kindle allows you to display your books by author, most recent, etc. - does the Sony allow you to display your titles by different methods too?

07-21-2008, 08:49 PM	#33
seajewel Fanatic Posts: 589 Karma: 1451235 Join Date: Jun 2008 Device: Sony PRS-505, Sony PRS-950	Well, I went with a Sony because of the price and the unicode patch. I only buy .lit files and convert to .lrf. I don't know how long Sony will be in the ebook business, but its lack of advertising for the Sony Reader, lack of a firmware release for the PRS-505 (after promising better support for pdf?) make me skeptical. However, the 505 was significantly cheaper than going with a Kindle or Gen3, and I can read Korean files on it. And.. calibre turned out to be a hidden benefit. Absolutely love my Reader, but the unicode patch is a little messy and I wish Sony supported putting your own fonts on to it natively, especially because I don't like the sony reader native fonts. Do not look good in small print on e-ink screens. Last edited by seajewel; 07-21-2008 at 08:50 PM. Reason: grammar

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07-21-2008, 06:46 PM	#32
Patricia Reader Posts: 11,505 Karma: 8720163 Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Wales, UK Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505, Asus EEEpc 4G	Manchuia has the great good fortune to be young. So s/he may not realise that technology breaks dowm, or may not care about preserving her/his work yet. Possibly s/he hasn't yet had the enormous irritation of seeing ten years' work becoming almost inaccessible because the Amstrad PCW (with its 3.5" disks) has a broken hard drive. It happened to me. Luckily, I found someone who could do a conversion to askii. It wasn't cheap. Fast forward another eight years and repeat the process when the iMac died. I'm an academic and I need my lectures, notes and books. I've now learned that data isn't safe unless you keep it in at least two different places and in transferable formats. It all depends on your attititude to books etc. Some people (like me) want to keep most of them forever. Others see many of them as disposable, like magazines.

07-21-2008, 08:59 PM	#34
basschick Wizard Posts: 1,096 Karma: 4695691 Join Date: May 2008 Device: Kindle Paperwhite	if you're looking cheap, get a used PDA and go with mobipocket format. later if you have more money, you can always get a cybook or a better PDA or a tablet.

07-22-2008, 12:24 AM	#38
Barcey Wizard Posts: 1,531 Karma: 8059866 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Device: Kobo H2O / Aura HD / Glo / iPad3	I was going to purchase a turntable that converts old vinyl LP's to MP3 but I cancelled the purchase because I decided I couldn't stand listening to the snap, crackle and pop of the old recordings. I've still got a couple of milk cases filled with LP's but if I get the urge to listen to them I'll buy the CD or MP3.

07-22-2008, 08:41 AM	#40
pshrynk Beepbeep n beebeep, yeah! Posts: 11,726 Karma: 8255450 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin, aka America's IceBox Device: iThingie, KmkII, I miss Zelda!	"Looks like I'm going to have to buy The White Album again!" -- K

07-22-2008, 08:42 AM	#41
manchuia Connoisseur Posts: 68 Karma: 384 Join Date: May 2008 Device: In under a month I will have had both Sonys and a Kindle	I currently have turntables in my house and bought my mom a record player so she could listen to all of her old records. I still find places to go record shopping Yes, I am young, but considering tech has changed so dramatically in the last decade or two saying I am too young to experience the frustration of a system becoming obsolete is a tad off base. I even shared a story where my programs (that I wrote) where basically locked away on 5 1/4" disks. I don't have any programs that can pull them off, but then again I don't expect the technology to always (easily) provide me with a solution to do so. Your story has a happier ending than mine. You found someone to do the conversion to ASCII, your work was saved, huzzah! I understand the concern in wanting to be "future proof", but I just view it as a fairly crippling ideal to hold onto. Technology moves so fast that you either have to adjust or make a nice home for yourself and get left behind. The latter isn't a bad thing. In fact that's what my mom is doing right now. Her computer plays all of her puzzle games, sudoku, and allows her to mess with the old version of Photoshop that she has (which can save images as .jpg for people on the newer versions. Her computer is 6 years old (I think), and she sees absolutely no reason to upgrade and neither do I. This option is the best one to ensure future proofing as you never have to worry about what the future brings.

07-22-2008, 08:54 AM	#42
Patricia Reader Posts: 11,505 Karma: 8720163 Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Wales, UK Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505, Asus EEEpc 4G	I can see your point, Manchuia, and agree with you to a great extent. But I can't risk losing my work, so it gets saved (in several places) and in formats that I can change and update as necessary. I can see that everything works for your mother at the moment. But there comes a time when the computer breaks down irrevocably. If the data is in obsolete formats then it's gone forever. And that's want I want to avoid.

07-22-2008, 11:40 AM	#44
DDHarriman Guru Posts: 860 Karma: 4380 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Almada, Portugal Device: Cybook Gen3, Sony PRS 505, Kindle DXG and Samsung Galaxy Note	In the archives world (and libraries too) and IT btw, the rule with digital content (any) - is this: 1 - make at least 2 backups of your data, do it in timeline so short as you need, it can come to several times a day or once a day. Store one in the same building where you are, but not in the same room where you are and the other in a building away; 2 - state a cycle, in the worlds I’m talking about it is 5 years, and every 5 years check the supports where your files are and check the formats in witch they are. If one of these or both are disappearing, migrate the format to a new one, migrate the support to a new one. It’s not 100% sure, but diminishes strongly the danger of loosing data, any data, being it your email files from 10 years ago, your audio in mp3 format, your word documents, or… your ebooks. Best,

07-22-2008, 12:25 PM	#45
texasnightowl Guru Posts: 699 Karma: 1001556 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Device: Oasis 3, K4B(NT), K3/KK	OK, looks like I've missed quite the discussion since I had to actually go do some work yesterday. :> As for the "future proof"/30 yrs thing...let's put it this way. I have books with me that I've had for 20 yrs or more and still pull out to re-read. If I buy an ebook, I want to be able to do the same. I am willing to have to use utilities to convert it if need be. I suppose that is part of the reason I am leaning towards the Sony - because of the Calibre software. I know if I go with the Sony I will be doing conversions and can therefore store things in other formats. That being said, the Kindle is very tempting for a couple of reasons. 1. The number of items currently being offered by Amazon. 2. The wireless download. My friend brought his Kindle into work today for me to play with. And, it's not as bad as my first impressions. But, with the buttons taking up so much of the sides, it is harder to pick it up/hold it without moving forward/back (at least, when it is outside the case). I am not crazy about the keyboard being on it, but it certainly is very useful for searching the Kindle store. I downloaded a few samples and it all works seamlessly and is very tempting. But, I do have a usage question: Is the page turn on the Sony any faster than the Kindle? I am a fast reader and find that even when hitting the Next Page button when on the next to last line, I was still waiting for the next page to load. I'm sure I would adjust and maybe hit the next page button even earlier after spending more time with it, but was curious if the Sony was any faster. I see also that Kindle allows you to display your books by author, most recent, etc. - does the Sony allow you to display your titles by different methods too?

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