Embedded fonts? - Page 4

JCKobo · 12-21-2010, 06:15 PM

Hi everyone - I'm investigating this with our team to see if this is a feature we need to add, or a bug in our implementation. As soon as I have an answer I'll post it here.

SirNose · 12-21-2010, 06:16 PM

I think embedded fonts make a big difference, and did find it a frustrating thing that my kobo didn't display them (well, it *did* display them, but only after a lot of frigging with Calibre - that program does crazy shtuff to the css if your not careful!)

Anywho, Having got the fonts to work on the kobo (such as Charis in the Millenium books - and about half the other books I have, popular font that) I can confirm that there was ab-sol-ut-ly no performance 'issues' using the embedded fonts, none at all.

But I will say that (after giving up on the promised firmware update - a week before it arrived!) It is nice that my new PRS-650 just displays the fonts, no mucking about with code etc.

..and again *no* speed issues, it just powers along no bother.

Danger · 12-21-2010, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3d0g

I want it to be called what it really is. A feature request.

Bottom line is, it's simply not a bug and never was one. Yet, you continue to cause significant confusion among newbies here by claiming such. You're just going to have to accept that both the kobo and Kindle chose a different path for eBook fonts than you'd prefer. Strangely, there *are* eReader alternatives that *do* provide what you want, which makes me wonder why you're still here.

Only thing I can figure is, you just love to troll.

The upside for me is, I love to pick on trolls.

Every watch Red Dwarf, you remind me a lot of Rimmer. A complete and utter smeghead.

Quote:

No mention of "embedded" font support whatsoever. Seems to be working as designed to me.

Embedded fonts DO work on the Kobo, they just do not work if ONLY declared in the <body> tag. In other words they work if declared in other tags.

Working as intended (ie. embedded fonts do not work at all) = not a bug.
Partially working embedded fonts when not intended to work at all = bug.
Embedded fonts suppose to have full support but don't = bug.

3d0g · 12-21-2010, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danger

Every watch Red Dwarf, you remind me a lot of Rimmer. A complete and utter smeghead.

Nope. Never heard of it, nor do I know what a "smeghead" is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danger

Embedded fonts DO work on the Kobo, they just do not work if ONLY declared in the <body> tag. In other words they work if declared in other tags.

You're not breaking any news here Danger. We all know this. It's exactly as designed IMO.

I'm so excited! Yet another troll to play with! Goody!!!!

Psyke · 12-21-2010, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danger

Every watch Red Dwarf, you remind me a lot of Rimmer. A complete and utter smeghead..

LMAO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danger

Embedded fonts DO work on the Kobo, they just do not work if ONLY declared in the <body> tag. In other words they work if declared in other tags.

Not exactly....it's what I thought as well when I finally came accross this implementations, but in the test books I made, as soon as the body was declared, it overode any other font defined in other style tag in the code. Again, only on the kobo; in Sigil, Calibre and ADE, it works as you think it would.

moffattm · 12-21-2010, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danger

Every watch Red Dwarf, you remind me a lot of Rimmer. A complete and utter smeghead.

Even if 3d0g didn't get your reference, I did, and it made me laugh. Thanks for for putting a smile on my dial!

zoran · 12-22-2010, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

3d0g, why do you insist on being a killjoy? You don't seem to want embedded fonts to work. Why?

K. Seems that kobo guys are looking at this topic. I hardly wait to see
what will be the next complaint, when 1.8.x solves font definition place.

Danger · 12-22-2010, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3d0g

Nope. Never heard of it, nor do I know what a "smeghead" is.

You should look it up...

Quote:

I'm so excited! Yet another troll to play with! Goody!!!!

Actually I'm an Ogre... Just ask my wife and daycare kids. I roar pretty good too. Although the darn kids are starting to mimic me

BTW you obviously have no idea what a troll is according to this definition YOU are the troll

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...=forum%20troll

3d0g · 12-22-2010, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danger

BTW you obviously have no idea what a troll is according to this definition YOU are the troll

Son, I've been around since the Arpanet days so I know a few things about trolls...

Hi, Pot? Yeah, you're black. Love, Kettle.

JSWolf · 12-22-2010, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3d0g

I want it to be called what it really is. A feature request.

*IF* it's even possible to do within the hardware limitations of the kobo, I'm all for supporting custom body fonts as long as there's a way to shut them off. Body fonts will be an absolute performance killer on the kobo, just as they are now on the Nook and Sony devices. Kindle, the largest eReader in the world by far, doesn't even support them, also for performance reasons, no doubt.

Bottom line is, it's simply not a bug and never was one. Yet, you continue to cause significant confusion among newbies here by claiming such. You're just going to have to accept that both the kobo and Kindle chose a different path for eBook fonts than you'd prefer. Strangely, there *are* eReader alternatives that *do* provide what you want, which makes me wonder why you're still here.

Yes, it is a bug. Embedded fonts work if not in the body style. But they are supposed to work in a body style. Embedded fonts do not impact performance on a nook or Sony. Embedded fonts don't work on a Kindle not because of performance issues, but because of the format. Mobipocket does not allow for embedded fonts. That's why you don't have embedded fonts with a Kindle. Body fonts do not kill performance any more then placing the font-family code in other styles. In fact, my old 505 handled e,bedded fonts without a problem and the processor in that was slower then that used in the Kobos.

JSWolf · 12-22-2010, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoran

K. Seems that kobo guys are looking at this topic. I hardly wait to see
what will be the next complaint, when 1.8.x solves font definition place.

This is good news indeed.

Danger · 12-26-2010, 02:14 AM

Been playing around with embedded fonts and finally got the hang of it. After thinking about this, while the fault may be with the Kobo and not allowing embedded font declaration in the body css style. The work around in declaring it in other tags really isn't as much of a problem as I first thought.

Simply declaring it like:
p { font-family: "CharisR";} works equally well.

As regards performance issues, well maybe grampa (had to look up Arpanet) troll has performance issues but not my Kobo. No noticeable start-up lag on my epubs from the menu or sleep, and none on page turns.

elmago79 · 12-28-2010, 03:17 PM

Here's my guess. For the Kobo to be able to switch from serif to non-serif, it uses a css sheet that is located on /.kobo/adobe/pxf/userStyle.css, which says:

body {
font: serif;

}

Since this usersheet overrides the css in the book, if the font is declared the body, it is ignored. That being said, the existence of this Style sheet could be used for all kinds of neat stuff, including changing the fonts in all of the books if you place your fonts somewhere in the Kobo memory. I haven't tried any of these, but someone else might look into it.

My guess, however, is that anytime you change to serif or non-serif from the menu, this css sheet is rewritten. Or maybe it get's rewirtten at startup.

Psyke · 12-28-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmago79

Here's my guess. For the Kobo to be able to switch from serif to non-serif, it uses a css sheet that is located on /.kobo/adobe/pxf/userStyle.css, which says:

body {
font: serif;

}

Since this usersheet overrides the css in the book, if the font is declared the body, it is ignored. That being said, the existence of this Style sheet could be used for all kinds of neat stuff, including changing the fonts in all of the books if you place your fonts somewhere in the Kobo memory. I haven't tried any of these, but someone else might look into it.

My guess, however, is that anytime you change to serif or non-serif from the menu, this css sheet is rewritten. Or maybe it get's rewirtten at startup.

I've seen pholy mention the same thing in another post in another part of the site, and it's a very logical assumption. What it looks like is that Kobo needs to put an if/else rule for when a body tag is defined with a font within an epub. And no Jon, I still don't think this is a bug, but an oversight

elmago79 · 12-28-2010, 07:22 PM

Bug or no bug, you could a lot of neat things with margins and fonts IF that sheet works like I suppose it does. I would love to mess around a bit with it right, but I'm too busy reading in my Kobo right now

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Problem with embedded fonts	James_Wilde	ePub	25	09-24-2010 04:07 PM
Embedded fonts, Calibre, and choice of fonts	AlexBell	ePub	8	05-30-2010 06:00 AM
iPad Embedded Fonts	JSWolf	Apple Devices	24	04-26-2010 02:41 PM
Embedded fonts in epub	erik5000	ePub	7	12-08-2009 11:55 AM
ePub embedded fonts	JSWolf	Ectaco jetBook	9	09-14-2009 08:43 PM

12-21-2010, 06:15 PM	#46
JCKobo Kobo Product Guy Posts: 244 Karma: 36848 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Toronto Device: Kobo Vox	Hi everyone - I'm investigating this with our team to see if this is a feature we need to add, or a bug in our implementation. As soon as I have an answer I'll post it here.

12-21-2010, 06:16 PM	#47
SirNose Junior Member Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sydney, Australia Device: Original Kobo, PRS-650	I think embedded fonts make a big difference, and did find it a frustrating thing that my kobo didn't display them (well, it did display them, but only after a lot of frigging with Calibre - that program does crazy shtuff to the css if your not careful!) Anywho, Having got the fonts to work on the kobo (such as Charis in the Millenium books - and about half the other books I have, popular font that) I can confirm that there was ab-sol-ut-ly no performance 'issues' using the embedded fonts, none at all. But I will say that (after giving up on the promised firmware update - a week before it arrived!) It is nice that my new PRS-650 just displays the fonts, no mucking about with code etc. ..and again no speed issues, it just powers along no bother.

12-26-2010, 02:14 AM	#57
Danger Evangelist Posts: 490 Karma: 1665031 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Vancouver Island, Nanaimo Device: K2 (retired), Kobo Touch (passed to the wife), KGlo, Galaxy TabPro	Been playing around with embedded fonts and finally got the hang of it. After thinking about this, while the fault may be with the Kobo and not allowing embedded font declaration in the body css style. The work around in declaring it in other tags really isn't as much of a problem as I first thought. Simply declaring it like: p { font-family: "CharisR";} works equally well. As regards performance issues, well maybe grampa (had to look up Arpanet) troll has performance issues but not my Kobo. No noticeable start-up lag on my epubs from the menu or sleep, and none on page turns.

12-28-2010, 03:17 PM	#58
elmago79 Member Posts: 12 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: PRS-300	Here's my guess. For the Kobo to be able to switch from serif to non-serif, it uses a css sheet that is located on /.kobo/adobe/pxf/userStyle.css, which says: body { font: serif; } Since this usersheet overrides the css in the book, if the font is declared the body, it is ignored. That being said, the existence of this Style sheet could be used for all kinds of neat stuff, including changing the fonts in all of the books if you place your fonts somewhere in the Kobo memory. I haven't tried any of these, but someone else might look into it. My guess, however, is that anytime you change to serif or non-serif from the menu, this css sheet is rewritten. Or maybe it get's rewirtten at startup.

12-28-2010, 07:22 PM	#60
elmago79 Member Posts: 12 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: PRS-300	Bug or no bug, you could a lot of neat things with margins and fonts IF that sheet works like I suppose it does. I would love to mess around a bit with it right, but I'm too busy reading in my Kobo right now