You'd think that Kobo was the only company selling e-readers into the Canadian market

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by scrapking

Until recently, Canadians had to buy all their books from Amazon.com (no e-books were available in Amazon.ca). Unfortunately, there are a lot of e-books that we can see but can not purchase on Amazon.com. Worse yet, Amazon.com routinely encourages Canadians to buy the latest Kindle e-readers, only to tell them that we're not allowed to if we actually follow through on the suggestion.

Kobo has 55% e-reader marketshare in Canada (and growing), and you can be sure Amazon's policies in Canada play a part in that.

Kobobooks has been good to me so I am well-aware of the company (despite the search engine not finding all of books unless you do a weird search sometimes using middle initials and sometimes not.) But I never really understood the Canada thing with Amazon because on some forums it appeared that readers Are/Were buying the books but there was some tax or other added (that we didn't pay in the US). Then it seemed to go away. And some of the complaints seemed to be "even if it is free to you, we pay 2 dollars surcharge." or "keep the price really low because even 99 cents is really 3 dollars to us." My confusion was that I didn't realize until just now that Canadians were buying from the US site--I thought they were buying from the .ca site all along.

I think the same must be true of Australia. The readers became available there, but I am guessing people are buying books from the US site (at least I am guessing that now). And that even though they are buying from the US site, some books show as "not available" because somehow Amazon tracks which ones have "world rights" and which ones don't.

The reporting is always changing, so that added to the confusion. I'm not even sure it makes a difference...although from a payment standpoint it does (to me, not the person doing the buying.)

Okay. Thanks again.

[Tzar]

I agree with most people that part of the Kobo's dominance in Canada is due to the atrocious policies of Amazon towards Canada. Although Canada is a neighbor of the US, you would think we could as well be on Mars as far as Amazon is concerned when it comes to Kindle and ebooks. Unacceptable delays in getting Kindles on the Canadian market, lots of ebooks not available for your Kindle when you're in Canada, etc. Kobo has more agreements in place with editors that allow them to offer a larger selection of ebooks.

Amazon is too US-centric and that may be their ultimate weakness.

[Anjohl]

I love Amazons free Web browsing, but Kobo beats them in every other way for me.

[scrapking]

Originally Posted by Anjohl

I love Amazons free Web browsing, but Kobo beats them in every other way for me.

It looks like the jig is up for that feature and Canadians. Amazon no longer releases 3G devices in Canada. For example, we got the Kindle Touch the year after it launched in the U.S., and we only got the option of the WiFi version.

The only 3G-capable Kindle Amazon will sell into Canada is the old Kindle Keyboard 3G.

And at the risk of stating the obvious, since Amazon charges more for 3G-enabled Kindles, the 3G feature is not "free" (though it is a very reasonable flat rate).

Of course, there's so much free/cheap WiFi out there that I don't miss it now like I would have once upon a time. And I can just make a WiFi hotspot whenever I need to using my smartphone anyway.

[scrapking]

Originally Posted by Tzar

I agree with most people that part of the Kobo's dominance in Canada is due to the atrocious policies of Amazon towards Canada. Although Canada is a neighbor of the US, you would think we could as well be on Mars as far as Amazon is concerned when it comes to Kindle and ebooks. Unacceptable delays in getting Kindles on the Canadian market, lots of ebooks not available for your Kindle when you're in Canada, etc. Kobo has more agreements in place with editors that allow them to offer a larger selection of ebooks.

Amazon is too US-centric and that may be their ultimate weakness.

I went to several seminars at the most recent ExpoCycle trade show in Toronto. One presenter there said Amazon had tried and failed to crack the Canadian nut.

Amazon has encouraged "showrooming" in the U.S. and elsewhere, the abysmal practice of consumers looking at and/or trying out items in store, then going on to Amazon (often in the store with their smartphone, with tools Amazon provides) to see if they can buy it more cheaply. It's a practice with questionable ethics, when you using up the staff time and other resources of the store for your benefit, then buy elsewhere.

Canadians, however, typically do the opposite. We tend to go online to research our purchases, and once we've decided what we're going to get we tend to go into a local store to buy it. That doesn't fit with Amazon's business model, and I suspect plays into the amount of effort they put into Canada. Of course, things like this can be chicken and egg...

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by scrapking

I went to several seminars at the most recent ExpoCycle trade show in Toronto. One presenter there said Amazon had tried and failed to crack the Canadian nut.

Amazon has encouraged "showrooming" in the U.S. and elsewhere, the abysmal practice of consumers looking at and/or trying out items in store, then going on to Amazon (often in the store with their smartphone, with tools Amazon provides) to see if they can buy it more cheaply. It's a practice with questionable ethics, when you using up the staff time and other resources of the store for your benefit, then buy elsewhere.

Canadians, however, typically do the opposite. We tend to go online to research our purchases, and once we've decided what we're going to get we tend to go into a local store to buy it. That doesn't fit with Amazon's business model, and I suspect plays into the amount of effort they put into Canada. Of course, things like this can be chicken and egg...

My neighbor shops like that. She asks around, figures out what brand/model she wants and then looks for an actual store. I always thought it was maybe her generation (because she is older than me) but who knows. Maybe it's habit!

[JD Gumby]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

My neighbor shops like that. She asks around, figures out what brand/model she wants and then looks for an actual store. I always thought it was maybe her generation (because she is older than me) but who knows. Maybe it's habit!

Or just prefers to get the new toy in-hand that day instead of having to wait for (or pay extra for fast) shipping. Or prefers not to use their credit card online.

[treadlightly]

Originally Posted by JD Gumby

Or just prefers to get the new toy in-hand that day instead of having to wait for (or pay extra for fast) shipping.

I think this is it. Americans frequently get free or cheap shipping from online companies, whereas Canadians have to pay a lot more, contend with duty, or restrict their shopping to the few Cdn e-stores that give free shipping. It's easier to just go and pick up the product.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by treadlightly

I think this is it. Americans frequently get free or cheap shipping from online companies, whereas Canadians have to pay a lot more, contend with duty, or restrict their shopping to the few Cdn e-stores that give free shipping. It's easier to just go and pick up the product.

So I see from your sig that you have a Nook. Is the B&N service/books better in Canada? Or do you shop via the US Nook books? Is there a difference?

(If there is a website for Nook Canada, can you list it here? I'd like to see if my books show up there. Thanks.)

[ottdmk]

Barnes & Noble has no Canadian support, period. As I recall, you need a US-based credit card just to do business with them.

[treadlightly]

Originally Posted by ottdmk

Barnes & Noble has no Canadian support, period. As I recall, you need a US-based credit card just to do business with them.

I bought the Nook from B&N on a trip to the US, and when purchasing from their website use my Cdn-based credit card and a US address that was mine at one point in my life. They don't prevent me from doing so based on my Cdn IP address. I don't think they cross-reference credit card address and account address.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by treadlightly

I bought the Nook from B&N on a trip to the US, and when purchasing from their website use my Cdn-based credit card and a US address that was mine at one point in my life. They don't prevent me from doing so based on my Cdn IP address. I don't think they cross-reference credit card address and account address.

Thanks. Very useful for me to know. The Nook market has never been as large as the Kindle market, but since a lot of indie authors are exclusive to Amazon, it actually makes it a better market for me. Understanding where the books are sold helps.

[Anjohl]

I am all about "Showcasing" as it were. I think it is the natural evolution of consumerism. People forget that capitalism is at heart a war over money. The retailer has an asymetrical advantage, they do not share their true profit margins/costs. With "Showcasing", I can find out how much I am getting ripped off by stores paying cash monkeys with little knowledge of the product minimum wage.

I personally have little to no urge to buy *any* consumer good bad enough to pay more than it's worth, or pay more than I need to. Since immediacy isn't a priority for me, "showcasing" is optimal behavior.

I fail to see where any ethical quandary exists, either from Amazons, or in particular, the customers point of view.

[scrapking]

Originally Posted by Anjohl

I am all about "Showcasing" as it were. [...] I fail to see where any ethical quandary exists, either from Amazons, or in particular, the customers point of view.

Where showrooming is egregious, IMO, is when you go to a store without any intention of buying from them, yet tie up their staff's time, and otherwise use them to your advantage. Showroomers are the people who go to the store already planning to buy it on Amazon or elsewhere, but still want to see it in person first. Hell, there are people who go into a store, try an item on for size, and then go buy online: there the store provided them a service (sizing) at a cost to the store (staff, hydro, wear and tear on display units, etc.), one the showrooming consumer is happy to accept for free under false pretenses.

It's easy to complain about corporate mark-ups and bored minimum wage staff at big box stores (though they do still have to pay their staff and pay the bills), but that kind of logic is the same cited by shoplifters; both cost the store money, one directly, the ohter indirectly.

But what about someone who showrooms in their small, local, independent shoe store, or bicycle shop? A company that is engaged with the community, provides great customer service. Showrooming happens there too, is that OK? Should it matter how many owners/shareholders a company has to have before showrooming is OK?

If the local store provides something the online store cannot (absolute confirmation that you want to buy something due to trying it out in person, or personalised sizing), and you got that from the store under the pretense that you might buy from them (even though you knew absolutely that you would not), I think most Canadians would find that pretty unfair. You've willingly stolen time and energy for your benefit, from a store you knew in advance you weren't going to patronise, and in fact did so with every intention that you were going to patronise an online competitor.

Swinging by your local store in good faith, finding their value proposition not to your liking, and then buying online is not showrooming. Using a local store to your advantage with prior knowledge that you were going to buy elsewhere, that is showrooming. And market research is suggesting most Canadians find that distateful (and rightly so, if you ask me).

As to the retailer "holding all the cards", I'd argue that's not accurate. It's generally possible, with a bit of research, to find out approximate retail mark-ups from wholesale (perhaps for the category in general, perhaps for items in specific). Some consumers do use this information to their advantage in negotiating with retailers. And don't wholesalers have all but the biggest retailers "by the short and curlies" in most cases? I don't care how big you are, you can't charge less than your wholesale for very long, nor can you charge more than the consumer is willing to pay, and you have to make enough somewhere in the middle to stay in business and pay your staff. It's a delicate balancing act.

[Tzar]

This showrooming thing, I can't understand it. I am only going to buy online if I cannot find it in a store. Or there would have to be a pretty outrageous price difference in favor of online, which isn't often the case when taking shipping costs into account. Just hopping in the car, drive to the store and pick up the item I want is faster than waiting for it while it ships. I use the net a lot to do research about the product, but will go into an actual store to buy it if available in store. I don't care if the staff knows zip about the product as I do so much research than I usually know more than them anyway. I pick the item, pass at the cashier, and out of the store. 5 minutes, I'm done.