what about limiting certain areas the site until someone has been a member "x" long?

kindlekitten · 09-24-2010, 08:05 PM

after the recent rash of unpleasantry in the Llounge, which is where I expect most psocks will troll, what if we limit it? say that someone has to be a member for... I dunno... a month, 6 weeks, 3 months?

I'm not sure how everyone else found their way around at the beginning, but I started with just my device (the Kindle) forum, then the News, then the newbie area. it probably took a good 6 weeks for me to feel comfortable enough to check out the Lounge. I know it's different for everyone, but *shrug* it might keep the spammers down. especially the ones who HAVE been banned and want to come back and stir the pot. I also realize that every forum is vulnerable, but it seems that the Lounge is the biggest target.

just my .02

montsnmags · 09-24-2010, 10:12 PM

I agree that The Lounge is likely to often be a trolling access point (or the Apple forum

) for sockpuppets or otherwise. On the other hand, I'd like to think that The Lounge is the next point beyond the Introduce Yourself section where a person can show themselves, without having to feel like an expert on whichever other sub-forum before they get the courage to post. There's always some random topic that a new person can jump into. For me, I'd rather deal with the sockpuppet whack-a-trolls and spammers (and I say that as someone extremely stressed out by the moderator stuff, when things go pear-shaped, as recently) than have the enormous majority of genuine new folk have to deal with a waiting period.

For me, The Lounge is the lounge...a place we go where we can let it all (bar the guideline-restrictions) hang out. Be comfortable with each other. Meet each other. Handhold nervous newbies if necessary, or just offer to buy them a drink. It is the welcoming beanbag salon beyond the Introduce Yourself greeting antechamber.

So, I'm not sure I like that specific waiting period, based on how I personally feel about The Lounge. I think, what with how folks deal with the bad bits (by reporting so quickly, not reacting to provocation, ignoring and continuing as means of control, et cetera) is and has been very effective in most cases. I think all us lounge-lizards generally do a pretty good job of sorting that stuff out, even though action (or inaction) is not always unanimous, I know.

I've sometimes wondered if The Lounge needs a sticky, along the lines of a FAQ-and-welcome. Sort of a "Come in, have a drink, what's your poison, how are you going, what's your views on chocolate, if-you're-a-troll-prepare-to-be-destroyed, can I get your coat, here, there's a nice beanbag circle over here, what's on your mind, if-you-spam-here-we-will-hunt-you-down-and-dress-you-in-hello-kitty-pajamas-and-post-the-toutube-video, how are you today?". Just to let them know the casual-but-useful parameters and glossary of "Seriously Thoughtful" and "Unutterably Silly" and all flavours in-between.

(KK, I just offer this with a sincere "IMHO"...any bit of contrariness I (only personally) have is only associated with seeing the strong worth to MR of your thread here. My selfish appreciation is that the trolls and spammers and sockpuppets cause me an inordinate amount of sleepless stress, and anything that alleviates that...

).

Cheers,
Marc

pholy · 09-24-2010, 11:27 PM

Marc, I think in general I agree with your views here, except for two things - First, you are not responsible for whacking all the trolls, leave some for your other green f(r)iends, and don't lose any sleep over it. That's an order! Second, it occurred to me that maybe we need a rule about making one wait fifteen minutes between posts in any one thread - that might slow down some flame wars. Of course, some playful threads thrive on the continual back and forth banter, so maybe moderators need a switch they can throw on a thread that's melting down, and let the others just bubble away... (Gawd, what a bunch of coding that would be!)
Thankfully, I can just walk away from those meltdowns (usually - I think - some people pop my cork).

kindlekitten · 09-25-2010, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pholy

Marc, I think in general I agree with your views here, except for two things - First, you are not responsible for whacking all the trolls, leave some for your other green f(r)iends, and don't lose any sleep over it. That's an order! Second, it occurred to me that maybe we need a rule about making one wait fifteen minutes between posts in any one thread - that might slow down some flame wars. Of course, some playful threads thrive on the continual back and forth banter, so maybe moderators need a switch they can throw on a thread that's melting down, and let the others just bubble away... (Gawd, what a bunch of coding that would be!)
Thankfully, I can just walk away from those meltdowns (usually - I think - some people pop my cork).

ack NO WAY!!! on the wait!!! I have a hard enough time as it is on the wait time between PMs. sometimes when I log on I spend a HUGE amount of time dealing with them and the WAITING!!!!

wellllll..... I dunno.... seems like we could have some place that was kind of secure from spammers that you would have to wait to get into...

GeoffC · 09-25-2010, 06:44 AM

Only one way I can think of that may deter some folk (and I'm not sure we want to go there) is charge a subscription fee !!!!

roger the rabbit · 09-25-2010, 07:00 AM

What about some way of being able to give negative Karma!
(say a fixed percentage of what the offending poster has).

Then when their K gets below a certain figure or (%age of what they had or %reduction) they can't post for a week, 10 days, or something.

Or will this lead to vigilante (ism) or too complicated.

(Just an idea)

TGS · 09-25-2010, 07:45 AM

I guess there are two separate issues here - dealing with trolling and preventing it from occurring. The mods here seem to me to do a very good job of dealing with it when it arises, and if there is more that mortal members can do then please let us know. Anything that prevents it happening will also impact on upright members of the community more than it impacts on trolls - if for no other reason than that trolls don't stay around for long.

I don't know what kind of interventions the mods need to make to deal with trolling or how much work it involves them in, but is it that big of an issue that we need to start placing restrictions on access or time delays. Though I do like GeoffC's idea of paying subs - then we could have a few bottles of something nice every now and again

nohmi2 · 09-25-2010, 08:07 AM

Where exactly are the rules and regulations for Mobile Read?

I know that I have been in a nasty situation where I would have thought that some gentle 'tut-tutting' from the Mods would have come in handy. All because of a thread which I started which was not deemed worthy for that responders so-called intellect.

I have also been in the situation where I was rightfully reprimanded. I rightfully apologised.

One cannot help but feel that there is a small coterie of members who are immune to the usual restraints which some of us adhere to.

Make the Rules and Regulations highly visible for all to see as soon as one logs on. Then if someone becomes obnoxious, or uses excessive language that is not warranted in the situation, then ban them.

I belong to two other chat-rooms where you are not able to start a Thread until you have given your opinion (politely) to a subject or asked a question in ten posts.

It isn't only the trolls who are a problem.

Cheers

GeoffC · 09-25-2010, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nohmi2

Where exactly are the rules and regulations for Mobile Read?

Cheers

FAQs are accessed via the link on the blue banner at the bottom of the screen - and are also agreed during the sign up .

(link in my sig line, also)

nohmi2 · 09-25-2010, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

FAQs are accessed via the link on the blue banner at the bottom of the screen - and are also agreed during the sign up .

(link in my sig line, also)

Wouldn't it be possible to put it in a much more prominent position? With a sign something on the lines of:-

All Trolls and Rule Breakers will have a hex put on them.
Hanging. drawing and quartering will also be considered.

Cheers

GeoffC · 09-25-2010, 08:49 AM

you do realise, of course, that if you quarter them - they will increase in numbers ....

but the terms are to be read when registration takes place (whether they read them or not, they agree to be bound by them)

astra · 09-25-2010, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger the rabbit

What about some way of being able to give negative Karma!
(say a fixed percentage of what the offending poster has).

Then when their K gets below a certain figure or (%age of what they had or %reduction) they can't post for a week, 10 days, or something.

Or will this lead to vigilante (ism) or too complicated.

(Just an idea)

Don't go this way, please

If you introduce negative karma concept, a karma war will be unleashed. Gangs, vengeance, etc. I have seen it happen on other forums. Although we have allegedly a more mature user base, life experience has shown to me that adults are very often even worse than teens.

tompe · 09-25-2010, 02:04 PM

I thought most people read by searching for new posts. And then of course you will mostly see the parts of MR that has most new posts. And you search because you want to participate in discussions that are ongoing.

desertgrandma · 09-25-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger the rabbit

What about some way of being able to give negative Karma!
(say a fixed percentage of what the offending poster has).

Then when their K gets below a certain figure or (%age of what they had or %reduction) they can't post for a week, 10 days, or something.

Or will this lead to vigilante (ism) or too complicated.

(Just an idea)

This will work great!

Until, that is, you post something totally at odds with what others think.

Think of the religious/political forum, or stripping DRM and how that might be used........bad idea IMHO.

SkyDream · 09-25-2010, 02:33 PM

Negative karma isn't the way to go.
How will you prevent a gang of trolls to spent lots of negative karma to you ?
You may be negative in seconds.

09-24-2010, 08:05 PM	#1
kindlekitten Professional Adventuress Posts: 13,368 Karma: 50260224 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Olympic Peninsula on the OTHER Washington! (the big green clean one on the west coast!) Device: Kindle, the original! Times Two! and gifting an International Kindle	what about limiting certain areas the site until someone has been a member "x" long? after the recent rash of unpleasantry in the Llounge, which is where I expect most psocks will troll, what if we limit it? say that someone has to be a member for... I dunno... a month, 6 weeks, 3 months? I'm not sure how everyone else found their way around at the beginning, but I started with just my device (the Kindle) forum, then the News, then the newbie area. it probably took a good 6 weeks for me to feel comfortable enough to check out the Lounge. I know it's different for everyone, but shrug it might keep the spammers down. especially the ones who HAVE been banned and want to come back and stir the pot. I also realize that every forum is vulnerable, but it seems that the Lounge is the biggest target. just my .02

09-25-2010, 08:07 AM	#8
nohmi2 Pensively observing. Posts: 1,758 Karma: 12675456 Join Date: Jun 2008 Device: Varied.	Where exactly are the rules and regulations for Mobile Read? I know that I have been in a nasty situation where I would have thought that some gentle 'tut-tutting' from the Mods would have come in handy. All because of a thread which I started which was not deemed worthy for that responders so-called intellect. I have also been in the situation where I was rightfully reprimanded. I rightfully apologised. One cannot help but feel that there is a small coterie of members who are immune to the usual restraints which some of us adhere to. Make the Rules and Regulations highly visible for all to see as soon as one logs on. Then if someone becomes obnoxious, or uses excessive language that is not warranted in the situation, then ban them. I belong to two other chat-rooms where you are not able to start a Thread until you have given your opinion (politely) to a subject or asked a question in ten posts. It isn't only the trolls who are a problem. Cheers Last edited by nohmi2; 09-25-2010 at 08:08 AM. Reason: Additional comment.

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09-24-2010, 10:12 PM	#2
montsnmags Grand Sorcerer Posts: 10,155 Karma: 4632658 Join Date: Nov 2007 Device: none	I agree that The Lounge is likely to often be a trolling access point (or the Apple forum ) for sockpuppets or otherwise. On the other hand, I'd like to think that The Lounge is the next point beyond the Introduce Yourself section where a person can show themselves, without having to feel like an expert on whichever other sub-forum before they get the courage to post. There's always some random topic that a new person can jump into. For me, I'd rather deal with the sockpuppet whack-a-trolls and spammers (and I say that as someone extremely stressed out by the moderator stuff, when things go pear-shaped, as recently) than have the enormous majority of genuine new folk have to deal with a waiting period. For me, The Lounge is the lounge...a place we go where we can let it all (bar the guideline-restrictions) hang out. Be comfortable with each other. Meet each other. Handhold nervous newbies if necessary, or just offer to buy them a drink. It is the welcoming beanbag salon beyond the Introduce Yourself greeting antechamber. So, I'm not sure I like that specific waiting period, based on how I personally feel about The Lounge. I think, what with how folks deal with the bad bits (by reporting so quickly, not reacting to provocation, ignoring and continuing as means of control, et cetera) is and has been very effective in most cases. I think all us lounge-lizards generally do a pretty good job of sorting that stuff out, even though action (or inaction) is not always unanimous, I know. I've sometimes wondered if The Lounge needs a sticky, along the lines of a FAQ-and-welcome. Sort of a "Come in, have a drink, what's your poison, how are you going, what's your views on chocolate, if-you're-a-troll-prepare-to-be-destroyed, can I get your coat, here, there's a nice beanbag circle over here, what's on your mind, if-you-spam-here-we-will-hunt-you-down-and-dress-you-in-hello-kitty-pajamas-and-post-the-toutube-video, how are you today?". Just to let them know the casual-but-useful parameters and glossary of "Seriously Thoughtful" and "Unutterably Silly" and all flavours in-between. (KK, I just offer this with a sincere "IMHO"...any bit of contrariness I (only personally) have is only associated with seeing the strong worth to MR of your thread here. My selfish appreciation is that the trolls and spammers and sockpuppets cause me an inordinate amount of sleepless stress, and anything that alleviates that... ). Cheers, Marc

09-24-2010, 11:27 PM	#3
pholy Booklegger Posts: 1,801 Karma: 7999816 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Device: BeBook(1 & 2010), PEZ, PRS-505, Kobo BT, PRS-T1, Playbook, Kobo Touch	Marc, I think in general I agree with your views here, except for two things - First, you are not responsible for whacking all the trolls, leave some for your other green f(r)iends, and don't lose any sleep over it. That's an order! Second, it occurred to me that maybe we need a rule about making one wait fifteen minutes between posts in any one thread - that might slow down some flame wars. Of course, some playful threads thrive on the continual back and forth banter, so maybe moderators need a switch they can throw on a thread that's melting down, and let the others just bubble away... (Gawd, what a bunch of coding that would be!) Thankfully, I can just walk away from those meltdowns (usually - I think - some people pop my cork).

09-25-2010, 06:44 AM	#5
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,600 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	Only one way I can think of that may deter some folk (and I'm not sure we want to go there) is charge a subscription fee !!!!

09-25-2010, 07:00 AM	#6
roger the rabbit Addict Posts: 316 Karma: 10215 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Wherever I lay my hat! Device: Sony PRS-T3, 650 Black, 505, Kobo Glo HD Aura ONE	What about some way of being able to give negative Karma! (say a fixed percentage of what the offending poster has). Then when their K gets below a certain figure or (%age of what they had or %reduction) they can't post for a week, 10 days, or something. Or will this lead to vigilante (ism) or too complicated. (Just an idea)

09-25-2010, 07:45 AM	#7
TGS Country Member Posts: 9,058 Karma: 7676767 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Denmark Device: Liseuse: Irex DR800. PRS 505 in the house, and the missus has an iPad.	I guess there are two separate issues here - dealing with trolling and preventing it from occurring. The mods here seem to me to do a very good job of dealing with it when it arises, and if there is more that mortal members can do then please let us know. Anything that prevents it happening will also impact on upright members of the community more than it impacts on trolls - if for no other reason than that trolls don't stay around for long. I don't know what kind of interventions the mods need to make to deal with trolling or how much work it involves them in, but is it that big of an issue that we need to start placing restrictions on access or time delays. Though I do like GeoffC's idea of paying subs - then we could have a few bottles of something nice every now and again

09-25-2010, 08:49 AM	#11
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,600 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	you do realise, of course, that if you quarter them - they will increase in numbers .... but the terms are to be read when registration takes place (whether they read them or not, they agree to be bound by them)

09-25-2010, 02:04 PM	#13
tompe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,452 Karma: 7185064 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Linköpng, Sweden Device: Kindle Voyage, Nexus 5, Kindle PW	I thought most people read by searching for new posts. And then of course you will mostly see the parts of MR that has most new posts. And you search because you want to participate in discussions that are ongoing.

09-25-2010, 02:33 PM	#15
SkyDream Wizard Posts: 1,377 Karma: 9400 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Europe Device: PRS-650, iPod touch 4G, iPad 3	Negative karma isn't the way to go. How will you prevent a gang of trolls to spent lots of negative karma to you ? You may be negative in seconds.

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