A problem with ADE?

[AlexBell]

A publisher for whom I design ebooks has asked me to ask about a problem in one of the ebooks I've designed for her. The material in the attached screenshot images is under copyright, but she has given me permission to display it.

The problem is that when she looks at one section of the ebook with ADE the sentences seem to run together, particularly when there are quotation marks. When I look at the same material with the Sony desktop reader, a Sony ereader, a Kobo Touch, an iPad with iBooks and with Marvin, and the calibre reader I don't see any problem.

Has anyone else seen a similar problem? Can anyone suggest how I can fix it? The publisher and I think it is an ADE problem, but we'd like to be sure before releasing the ebook on an unsuspecting world.

I have attached an image of a screen shot of a flash fiction story read with ADE v2, and an image of a screen shot of the same story read with the Sony desktop reader.

[Jellby]

It looks like the font is simply too tightly spaced/kerned.

Can you select text in ADE and check whether there is actually a space before/after the quotation marks?

Try with an embedded font. It might be just the way it is with the default ADE font.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by Jellby

It might be just the way it is with the default ADE font.

Looks like that is correct. I tested it on my end and got this:



Looks like it is tight on the "smart" double quote and the "smart" single quote.

I attached a test EPUB as well.

[JSWolf]

My suggestion is to embed a different font and see how that goes.

[AlexBell]

Thanks to you all.

I really don't want to embed fonts - I'd rather give the user the opportunity to choose his or her own preference.

Is there a way to change the kerning - either in ADE or in the ebook's stylesheet? I had a quick look at your test ePub, Tex200ans, and will open it up to see if I can work out what you did.

[JSWolf]

One thing I suggest is turn off sans-serif. It's not a nice font to use as the main body font. A Serif font work best.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

I had a quick look at your test ePub, Tex200ans, and will open it up to see if I can work out what you did.

Well that was just a quick EPUB I tossed together to show off the problem as your initial post. It is ALWAYS good to have code samples, so that everyone can work/mess around with.

I must admit, I never noticed this issue in ADE before (I just use it to do a very cursory glance at the EPUB to make sure nothing is overly broken). I do all my testing on actual devices (my old ancient Nook + Mantano on the cell phone).

Originally Posted by AlexBell

Is there a way to change the kerning - either in ADE or in the ebook's stylesheet?

Hmm, I do not believe there would be any way to do this to be device/font-agnostic.

If you care about it THAT much, you can do as others have said and embed a font.

I would just chalk it up to crappy ADE font and not worry about it.

[GrannyGrump]

problem is that when she looks at one section of the ebook with ADE the sentences seem to run together, particularly when there are quotation marks

Does this mean that this problem does NOT appear *throughout* the book, but only in certain sections?

[AlexBell]

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

Does this mean that this problem does NOT appear *throughout* the book, but only in certain sections?

Yes, there is a poetry section in which there are a few poems with a few quotation marks in which the problem does not show, and a flash fiction in which the problem does show.

The only difference between the poetry section and the flash fiction section is that I have used this CSS for poetry:

div.verse {
margin: 0;
padding: 0.75em 0 0 0;
} /* Sets top margin and indent for poetry verses */
div.verse p { text-indent: -2em;
margin-left: 2em;
text-align: left;
margin-bottom: 0;
padding: 0;
}

The rest of the stylesheet is the same for both sections.

I should have mentioned that the stylesheet for this ebook is virtually unchanged from that used in other ebooks for the same publisher.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

Yes, there is a poetry section in which there are a few poems with a few quotation marks in which the problem does not show, and a flash fiction in which the problem does show.

[...]

The rest of the stylesheet is the same for both sections.

Again, this is where code will matter. I just used that CSS in an expanded Kerning Test (attached to this post), and I still see the issue has not changed.



If you spot an area where this issue does not happen, we will need more tests/code/examples!

Originally Posted by AlexBell

I should have mentioned that the stylesheet for this ebook is virtually unchanged from that used in other ebooks for the same publisher.

I took a look through a bunch of my EPUBs in ADE, and see the same exact kerning issue with those smart quotes.

I have been using the same CSS for a LOOONG time, and do not do anything fancy (just some indentation, bold, italics, margins here and there).

[AlexBell]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Again, this is where code will matter. I just used that CSS in an expanded Kerning Test (attached to this post), and I still see the issue has not changed.

Attachment 116221

If you spot an area where this issue does not happen, we will need more tests/code/examples!



I took a look through a bunch of my EPUBs in ADE, and see the same exact kerning issue with those smart quotes.

I have been using the same CSS for a LOOONG time, and do not do anything fancy (just some indentation, bold, italics, margins here and there).

Thanks again for the Kerning test and your other comments.

I'll see what I can do about getting the whole ePub to you. It's copyright, and not mine.

[GrannyGrump]

It does seem as though the ADE default sans-serif font is mostly to blame for this. (I never view in sans-serif, so this is news to me also).The default SERIF font seems to me to be fine.

See attached screenshots for comparison of ADE screen with default serif vs. sans-serif text fragment using smart quotes.

(I see Tex already posted a screenshot, but the zoomed image to compare on these might be helpful, I hope)

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

It does seem as though the ADE default sans-serif font is mostly to blame for this. (I never view in sans-serif, so this is news to me also).The default SERIF font seems to me to be fine.

Problem is though that different versions of ADE use different fonts. So the best way to make sure the quotes are correct is to embed a font that will work no matter which version of ADE is used.

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

The only difference between the poetry section and the flash fiction section is that I have used this CSS for poetry:

div.verse {
margin: 0;
padding: 0.75em 0 0 0;
} /* Sets top margin and indent for poetry verses */
div.verse p { text-indent: -2em;
margin-left: 2em;
text-align: left;
margin-bottom: 0;
padding: 0;
}

That (the bold part) may be the significant difference. The rest of the book is probably justified, which apparently alters the default word spacing (or you are being unlucky and find too many shrunk lines). Does it change anything (in the non-poetry part) if you modify the window width?

[GrannyGrump]

@JSWolf: Of course, you could also assume that users who read with the default sans-serif are accustomed to it, and know what to expect and how to interpret its appearance.

Wouldn't embedding a main body-text font make it difficult for users who want sans-serif? Or who just don't like the font you choose to inflict on them?

PS: @Jellby, when I check with align-left, the sans-serif is still more tightly kerned than the serif font. Maybe it is just a feature of that font...