Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Formats > Workshop

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-20-2009, 10:22 PM   #1
wallcraft
reader
wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
wallcraft's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,975
Karma: 5183568
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD
A Comparison of format limitations based on The Hobbit

In an attempt to answer the question "is there a best format" for recent ebooks from a mainstream publisher, I have made screenshots of Tolkein's The Hobbit from Harper Collins in six ebook formats on a Desktop PC. There are already a few screenshots and other comments on formatting in Lord of the Rings Now Available! KINDLE, EPUB, PDF, LIT, and MOBI but that thread is too long to concentrate of formatting. Since all versions are presumably made from the same "master" copy, it isn't all that surprising that there is relatively little difference.

The six images are MOBI, LIT, eReader, ePub, LRX, and PDF. They are all from the 1st page of the 1st chapter. I can post other screenshots if anyone has other pages they would like to see. The readers have not been made consistent, for example I have not always chosen the same font or font size where this is under user control. I bought both a FictionWise and a BoB (OverDrive) MOBI, but these seem to be identical so only one is shown here. I assume the Kindle version is the same (it is the same filesize).

I was surprised that many of the illustrations are in landscape mode. This isn't too bad for a handheld device, but does not work well on a desktop.

The eReader and MOBI versions are about 1MB, the ePub, LIT and PDF versions are about 4MB and the LRX a bit larger still. This might imply that eReader and MOBI versions have smaller image files.

EDIT: FictionWise has released a "quick" fix of the eReader version. The final version is due May 1st. I have added its screenshot as a 7th image (original is image 3). This is more similar to the other versions.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_1MP.jpg
Views:	21312
Size:	136.6 KB
ID:	27837   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_1LIT.jpg
Views:	19027
Size:	117.0 KB
ID:	27838   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_1eR.jpg
Views:	17768
Size:	269.2 KB
ID:	27839   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_1ePub.jpg
Views:	18734
Size:	163.9 KB
ID:	27840   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_1LRX.jpg
Views:	15075
Size:	133.1 KB
ID:	27841   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_1PDF.jpg
Views:	15072
Size:	161.4 KB
ID:	27842   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_1eR2.jpg
Views:	12843
Size:	229.6 KB
ID:	28041  

Last edited by wallcraft; 04-24-2009 at 08:50 PM.
wallcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 10:23 PM   #2
pilotbob
Grand Sorcerer
pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pilotbob's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,832
Karma: 11844413
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Device: Kindle Touch
Goodness. You bought every format?

BOb
pilotbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 04-20-2009, 10:30 PM   #3
wallcraft
reader
wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
wallcraft's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,975
Karma: 5183568
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotbob View Post
You bought every format?
Yes. That is why I looked at the Hobbit, since it is cheaper than the full Lord of the Rings.
wallcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 10:44 PM   #4
All4Fun
Zealot
All4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-books
 
Posts: 149
Karma: 937
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: iPad, Blackberry Bold
Wallcraft, thank you for making the financial sacrifice to do this. This is indeed a valuable post to make the comparisons between the different formats.

The eReader version looks the worse to me. While I like the LRX version the best, you can't remove the DRM and the PDF version is not flexible enough to work with.

That leaves the mobi, lit, and epub versions which appear to be all on par.

After all that I've read and learned from the many intelligent people on this forum, I'm guessing that epub is the best source format, followed by lit, then mobi when thinking about converting to other formats.

Last edited by All4Fun; 04-20-2009 at 10:50 PM.
All4Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 10:55 PM   #5
All4Fun
Zealot
All4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-books
 
Posts: 149
Karma: 937
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: iPad, Blackberry Bold
Wallcraft, are you able to take an image from mobi (any image) and compare it to epub please? With the filesize difference between mobi and epub, I'm expecting (hoping) that the image is of a higher quality in the epub version.
All4Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 04-20-2009, 11:06 PM   #6
ilovejedd
hopeless n00b
ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
ilovejedd's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,111
Karma: 19597086
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: in the middle of nowhere
Device: PW4, PW3, Libra H2O, iPad 10.5, iPad 11, iPad 12.9
A very nice comparison. Your effort is much appreciated. The Adobe PDF looks the best, at least on the computer. I doubt it translates well to a device, though. Still in two minds whether I should get epub or lit, though... On the computer, I like MS Reader better and it's easy enough to convert to epub. Big favor, would it be possible for you to unDRM the lit version, convert to epub with Calibre and post a screenshot?
ilovejedd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 11:22 PM   #7
wallcraft
reader
wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
wallcraft's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,975
Karma: 5183568
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD
The images are vastly different in size. The ePub and LIT versions have very large images, the largest is the Map of Wilderland, which is 1,547KB and 1600x1258. The MOBI version is 81KB and 586x481. The eReader version is smaller still, 38KB and 360x282. The ePub version resizes to fit the screen, so it is probably an image inside a SVG. The PDF version is across 2 pages, and unfortunately the double page ADE option does not show both pages of the figure.

EDIT: FictionWise has released a "quick" fix of the eReader version. The final version is due May 1st. I have added its screenshot as a 7th image (original is image 3). The images seems clearer, but I can't tell how big it is (because the eReader ebook is DRM-free, so it is harder to explode to extract the image).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_2MP.jpg
Views:	4753
Size:	146.3 KB
ID:	27844   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_2LIT.jpg
Views:	3973
Size:	162.3 KB
ID:	27845   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_2eR.jpg
Views:	3669
Size:	126.6 KB
ID:	27846   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_2ePub.jpg
Views:	4530
Size:	300.6 KB
ID:	27847   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_2LRX.jpg
Views:	3291
Size:	156.5 KB
ID:	27848   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_2PDF.jpg
Views:	3368
Size:	239.8 KB
ID:	27849   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_2eR2.jpg
Views:	2509
Size:	87.4 KB
ID:	28042  

Last edited by wallcraft; 04-24-2009 at 08:54 PM.
wallcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 11:42 PM   #8
wallcraft
reader
wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
wallcraft's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,975
Karma: 5183568
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post
would it be possible for you to unDRM the lit version, convert to epub with Calibre and post a screenshot?
The LIT2PUB (using any2epub) works pretty well, the "Chapter 1" ends up on its own page though. I found that LIT2MOBI worked better than EPUB2MOBI (both via any2mobi) at least for images, but EPUB2MOBI gave the best transfer for the Chapter 1 page.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_1LIT.jpg
Views:	1110
Size:	117.0 KB
ID:	27850   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_1LIT2ePub.jpg
Views:	1191
Size:	195.0 KB
ID:	27851   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_1LIT2MP.jpg
Views:	1088
Size:	216.5 KB
ID:	27852   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_1ePub2MP.jpg
Views:	1102
Size:	184.8 KB
ID:	27853   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hobbit_1MP.jpg
Views:	1075
Size:	136.6 KB
ID:	27854  
wallcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 12:08 AM   #9
ilovejedd
hopeless n00b
ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
ilovejedd's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,111
Karma: 19597086
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: in the middle of nowhere
Device: PW4, PW3, Libra H2O, iPad 10.5, iPad 11, iPad 12.9
Thank you very much for that!

I think I know the reason why there's a pagebreak between "Chapter I" and "An Unexpected Party". The default chapter detection scheme checks for the words chapter, book, section and part inside <h1> and <h2> tags. The part in An Unexpected Party probably triggered this, hence it was recognized as its own chapter. It should be easy enough to get around this by changing the regular expression any2epub uses or by disabling automatic chapter detection.
ilovejedd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 12:49 AM   #10
=X=
Wizard
=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
=X='s Avatar
 
Posts: 3,671
Karma: 12205348
Join Date: Mar 2008
Device: Galaxy S, Nook w/CM7
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallcraft View Post
The LIT2PUB (using any2epub) works pretty well, the "Chapter 1" ends up on its own page though. I found that LIT2MOBI worked better than EPUB2MOBI (both via any2mobi) at least for images, but EPUB2MOBI gave the best transfer for the Chapter 1 page.
I used MobiPocket to import the ePUB to MOBI. The tool did a fantastic job.

BTW this is the best ePUB version I've seen. I only wish publishers are going to continue making ePUB with this quality.

=X=
=X= is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 01:19 AM   #11
wallcraft
reader
wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
wallcraft's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,975
Karma: 5183568
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by =X= View Post
I used MobiPocket to import the ePUB to MOBI. The tool did a fantastic job.
I agree. The ePub to MOBI capability with the latest Windows Desktop MobiPocket Reader is much better than it used to be. The resulting images are the same size as those in the original MOBI, so mobigen or something similar has been used to create the MOBI and it is automatically reducing the size (both the size on the screen and the filesize) of the original images.
wallcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 02:56 AM   #12
Gaspode
Member
Gaspode possesses cleverness exceeding the boundaries of Space and TimeGaspode possesses cleverness exceeding the boundaries of Space and TimeGaspode possesses cleverness exceeding the boundaries of Space and TimeGaspode possesses cleverness exceeding the boundaries of Space and TimeGaspode possesses cleverness exceeding the boundaries of Space and TimeGaspode possesses cleverness exceeding the boundaries of Space and TimeGaspode possesses cleverness exceeding the boundaries of Space and TimeGaspode possesses cleverness exceeding the boundaries of Space and TimeGaspode possesses cleverness exceeding the boundaries of Space and TimeGaspode possesses cleverness exceeding the boundaries of Space and TimeGaspode possesses cleverness exceeding the boundaries of Space and Time
 
Gaspode's Avatar
 
Posts: 17
Karma: 49962
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Device: Sony PRS-505, iPad, iPhone
Where did you get the LRX from?

Hi Wallcraft,

Thank you so much for doing this. As a newbie to ebooks it's good to see the differences.

Can I take it that you bought the LRX from the Sony Store? I can't buy from the Sony store because I am outside of the USA but I would like to buy this book in the best format for my PRS-505 and I am guessing that this format would be the best. Is that correct?

Dave.
Gaspode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 03:40 AM   #13
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 85,544
Karma: 93383043
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
Hi Dave,

You can buy from the Sony Store if you use gift vouchers. Contact "Leaping Gnome" by PM, and he'll be happy to buy them for you in return for PayPal payment.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 07:12 AM   #14
All4Fun
Zealot
All4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-booksAll4Fun has learned how to read e-books
 
Posts: 149
Karma: 937
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: iPad, Blackberry Bold
Wallcraft, thank you again for putting this together. It has helped to clear up a number of questions that I had previously about the different formats.
All4Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 08:21 AM   #15
kovidgoyal
creator of calibre
kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kovidgoyal's Avatar
 
Posts: 43,819
Karma: 22666666
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallcraft View Post
The LIT2PUB (using any2epub) works pretty well, the "Chapter 1" ends up on its own page though. I found that LIT2MOBI worked better than EPUB2MOBI (both via any2mobi) at least for images, but EPUB2MOBI gave the best transfer for the Chapter 1 page.
What was the problem with the images when converting from epub to mobi?
kovidgoyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Now wait a minute....why the format based price? kennyc Reading Recommendations 7 03-23-2010 10:10 PM
Lord of the Rings + Hobbit: Now in LEGIT e-book format! Robotech_Master News 12 04-20-2009 03:01 AM
Format Comparison: PDF, EPUB, and Mobi Downloads from Ebook Bundles Kris777 News 2 01-22-2009 04:19 AM
Mobi format limitations wmaurer Workshop 15 01-09-2009 02:16 PM
The Hobbit at Feedbooks Moe The Cat Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) 54 12-31-2008 07:32 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:00 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.