Did a writer get bullied on Goodreads? (Salon Article)

[Tome Keeper]

It saddens me that this whole affair is putting people off using Goodreads. I received an e-mail the other morning from a online 'friend' telling me that Goodreads condones rape, death threats and bullying and to make sure I deleted my profile on it. When I actually found out what was going on, I couldn't believe how things had escalated.

Goodreads is on the whole good, if you stay away from the odd drama (which I hate to say seems to focus on a few specific genres). It is very much a site of your own making, like another poster here pointed out. I find it a good way to organise reading lists and reviews but I don't really use the social functions very much so avoid the drama. I've had a really positive experience with it and for what I want to do it is the best of the bunch (LibraryThing, Shelfari, Booklikes).

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by Ravensknight

Eh, just make your profile private, then you can control EVERYTHING and not have to deal with craziness.

It really is a good site for keeping track of what you read, what you thought of it and why. If you like that kind of thing anyway

I can and do keep track of what I read, with a comment or two. The only point of joining a social media site would be to interact with other people, and if they're crazy ... do I really want to deal with even more crazy people?

I realize that this current brouhaha isn't the norm for the site, but it's still a turn-off.

[Ravensknight]

Originally Posted by Catlady

I can and do keep track of what I read, with a comment or two. The only point of joining a social media site would be to interact with other people, and if they're crazy ... do I really want to deal with even more crazy people?

I realize that this current brouhaha isn't the norm for the site, but it's still a turn-off.

If you already do those things, then I can see how GR wouldn't be as big a draw for you.

I started with a notebook in college, then moved to Xanga in '00 and when that site pretty much hit the skids, moved to blogger and then to GR. I'm hoping/counting on GR to have more staying power than my papernotebook [which got lost in a move] or Xanga.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by Catlady

I can and do keep track of what I read, with a comment or two. The only point of joining a social media site would be to interact with other people, and if they're crazy ... do I really want to deal with even more crazy people?

Not really. In my case I hardly interact, I don't follow reviews, I only belong to a couple of groups (quite calm). My main goal there is not the social aspect but the books info. It's quite good for that. I keep track of what I read too, but it helps when I'm far from my computer (it's not so easy to keep a notebook with more than two thousand books).

[faithbw]

Originally Posted by Catlady

I can and do keep track of what I read, with a comment or two. The only point of joining a social media site would be to interact with other people, and if they're crazy ... do I really want to deal with even more crazy people?

I realize that this current brouhaha isn't the norm for the site, but it's still a turn-off.

Ravensknight made a good point about keeping your profile private. Another thing I do is only friend people that I know outside of GR. Whether I know that person professionally, from another social media site or even a web forum like this one, I have to know that person from somewhere else. This allows me to only friend people who I suspect will be cool. Not all of my friends review books that interest me but sometimes a friend will read a book and this will make me interested in a book that I never would have heard of otherwise. The opposite also happens. Sometimes I end up getting into a conversation about a book that another friend happened to have read too.

Mostly I just use GR to keep track of the books I've read, rate and/or review those books and see what my friends are reading. I have to say that the drama I read about with other GR users doesn't affect me.

[Xanthe]

Originally Posted by kennyc

This. The Lindsey Lohan Method.

+1

And her next book will be on the topic of bullies and bullying...

[Blossom]

I use Goodreads to reviews ARCs and occasionally books I've bought or got through Lending. My problem is I have had authors comment on my reviews which seriously bothers me. Authors should never comment on reviews! Reviews are for the reader not the author. I've also had authors private message me asking me change my reviews.

It's ridiculous. I am afraid one of the these days I will review the wrong book and get bullied by some fan girls. Goodreads is own by Amazon and I keep hoping they will step in and clean the site up.

I too am tired of all flashing gifs used on reviews. It's drives me crazy so much I use a add on to turn them off. Ugh! I also agree that you should not be able to rate a book unless you read it. Fan girls always do this before it's release and it makes no sense. If you report it GR does nothing.

[caleb72]

Originally Posted by issybird

Eh. GR is what you make of it. Develop a few cronies; see what they're reading and swap recommendations and comments; use it to search for books and track, evaluate and organize your reading. Handy site; I enjoy it.

Amen.

And I think as an author you can still use the site to your advantage despite the zealous and sensitive nature of some of the genre "tribes" you can come across.

I'm in a couple of book clubs there and I do some cataloguing and listing as well as post my indie reviews and follow some blogs of some authors I like. Just like Facebook and other sites, you can make it into what works for you.

This thread did have some interesting info about the ratings though. It would never have occurred to me to use a rating measurement to indicate level of interest prior to consumption.

[Josieb1]

I love Goodreads and use it to rate all the books I read, I have loads of friends as well as I friend anyone who asks but I actually never read my feed over there and take any notice of ratings or reviews by anyone else. I recently deleted over 200 messages as I don't read them so anyone who messages me will be in for a long wait for a reply.

I use it simply as my library of books I want to read (marked as to read and NOT rated) and books I have read. I ignore everything else. I have a Facebook for my reviewer name and a Livejournal for my fandom name, that's where I socialise, not Goodreads.

[Tome Keeper]

Originally Posted by Blossom

If you report it GR does nothing.

Because GR allows users to use ratings however they see fit, including to indicate interest. I don't agree with it but that is their rating system.

As for the comments it is very easy to stop them, go to edit profile then settings. In the 'Who Can View My Profile' section unclick the 'allow non-friends to comment on my reviews' button. This will mean that no-one can comment on your reviews unless you friend them. You can also delete comments that have already occurred.

I'd be tempted to name and shame any authors messaging asking reviews to be changed, but that would probably cause more drama, so just ignore and block. You can also set PMs to just friends, which may help, on the settings page.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

I was following this via some friends on Facebook. I have no idea if this is correct or not but apparently the author queried why she was getting low ratings when the book had not yet been created, so no ARCs had been sent out. She asked the question in the wrong forum and that's when she started getting offensive comments, which her supporters tried to respond to.

Personally I don't think it all reads true, but because authors view Goodreads as a toxic site there's no point in trying to say anything to my author friends.

There are nasty trolls over there, I know as I made a mistake once of commenting on a personal attack against an author (and it WAS a personal attack) and got offensive comments back directed at me.

I like Goodreads as a library system and I do rate and review books I've read but I don't use it as a social site.

Speaking as an author, I don't view GR as a toxic site. Yeah, there have been problems, but there are mods (of a sort--they are responsive to some degree) and they do step in for numerous complaints. I had one book, one time get a star rating before it was available. No idea why. I assumed someone actually mistook the book for some other book. I certainly didn't comment on the rating or ask questions. I mean, shit happens, right?

I've seen authors go after other authors and because I review a lot of books, one of these days I'm probably going to get burned. I don't like the idea, there will be nothing I can do to stop it, but there you go. There's a reason that authors rarely do reviews for other authors (unless they are gushing or giving a quote.) It's a tough business. Tit-for-tat is never a great thing and there's very little policing of it. The only solution for me is to stop reviewing. Believe me, I do less of it than I used to and there are times when I weigh reviewing against just tossing the book (figuratively) and moving on.

All that said, we need reviews (as authors and reviewers). Not everyone uses them, but lots do. GR CEO said in an interview/presentation that books with less than 100 reviews/ratings have less of a chance of showing up in their algos. (Meaning along the side there where you see what other people looked at or liked or what you might like.) We're talking about money here. More reviews mean more visibility, usually respect (validation) and quite possibly more money. As long as those algos exist (and I suspect they exist on Amazon as well) the system will be gamed by some. It's their livelihood.

This behavior is no different, worse or better than any other business. It doesn't make it a good system, but it's the system we have.

[HarryT]

So this woman invented an entirely false story about having received death threats because she wasn't happy about a couple of poor reviews? Is that correct?

Definitely not an author I would ever buy from, if that is the case.

[crdf]

Originally Posted by issybird

Eh. GR is what you make of it. Develop a few cronies; see what they're reading and swap recommendations and comments; use it to search for books and track, evaluate and organize your reading. Handy site; I enjoy it.

I visit GR daily and I only know about the drama because of posts here.

Exactly. The drama is only there if you look for it, or if you are actively trying to help improving GR, I haven't noticed other webpages accepting/implementing users feedback as freely as GR and it is normal for this to lead to drama.

Originally Posted by faithbw

Thanks for the tip about the GIFs! I find them to be very distracting and childish (within the context of a book review).

Gifs do not appear on the feed.
You can filter reviews by text-only
You can use shttp to acces GR
You can use plugin [topics on the feedback group for the scripts, I can link for you if you like, there is way to get rid of them only in reviews or in group discussions as well.]

Originally Posted by Tome Keeper

It saddens me that this whole affair is putting people off using Goodreads. I received an e-mail the other morning from a online 'friend' telling me that Goodreads condones rape, death threats and bullying and to make sure I deleted my profile on it. When I actually found out what was going on, I couldn't believe how things had escalated.

Goodreads is on the whole good, if you stay away from the odd drama (which I hate to say seems to focus on a few specific genres). It is very much a site of your own making, like another poster here pointed out. I find it a good way to organise reading lists and reviews but I don't really use the social functions very much so avoid the drama. I've had a really positive experience with it and for what I want to do it is the best of the bunch (LibraryThing, Shelfari, Booklikes).

Agree. Add Amazon on that list.


But then if people are that easily put-off, and there is no way to understand things second-hand, it is ok with me if they don't want to be on GR, no need for more people causing drama!

[crdf]

Originally Posted by Blossom

If you report it GR does nothing.

Not true. It does nothing when a review is not against the review guidelines! I had flagged many reviews and those have been removed. Also now you can freeze comments.
So the fact is that you either have not read those guidelines, you don't understand them, or you flagged that comment today and expect immediate resolution!

flagging is NOT equal having my wish carried out, cause then probably your review would have been gone long before the author commented on it. GR protects personal opinion. Seems a lot of people are not used to the lack of censureship

[crdf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

So this woman invented an entirely false story about having received death threats because she wasn't happy about a couple of poor reviews? Is that correct?

Definitely not an author I would ever buy from, if that is the case.

I don't know if she invented or distorted the story, but a lot of authors do such things, I'm not saying she is the case as I have not witnessed this situation, but a lot of authors request ratings and reviews to be disabled or deleted for one reason or another when the truth is they just dislike it and don't understand the rating system.

And what the people miss to understand is the GR does not only protect the users but the authors as well. It tries to act as bias as possible, in my personal opinion. If you attack someone they do not look if you are a reader or an author. And why would they. If they were in for the money only, would have they done this. Every time they make a ruling on a simple flag a similar escalation is possible. Another prove that GR doesn't care what people say and follows their own rules.

Also there have been so many similar situations, and none was so popular. So I guess she is very smart. People will now thing - Hm, is there a reason for this rating to be so low or is it GR bad people rating? So good for her, she is smart.