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Old 02-15-2010, 06:14 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by nikkie View Post
Flash is slow, crappy, and awful on everything but its original platform. I'm glad it won't be showing up on the iPad!

Seriously though, my experience with it on Linux and my mac(s) were just awful. It was always crashing my browser or using up all of my memory. I doubt it would be much better on the iPad if we had it.
Hm, I have and have had a variety of Macs and even though I've read countless of posts about how bad Flash is on OS X, I've always had a perfectly seamless experience and never thought about it.

What I had major trouble with, was Safari 4.0x, which maybe about 4.02 started crashing periodically, both with Java and Flash. At times it took 3+ minutes to load my iGoogle page (no Flash there), or it just would quit suddenly!

It did this both on my iMac 24", on my office MacBook Pro and on my home HTPC (where I used it as the default browser). So, I tested for myself Safari, Firefox and Chrome on the Mac (and on my HTPC, running W7).

Safari came up the slowest, by far with Flash. It was also the biggest resource hog by far, both for CPU and memory, both on the Mac and on Windows.

Firefox and Chrome were about equal on Windows (Chrome was not available on the Mac yet), but both were using maybe 3-4 times less resources than Safari, which was surprising, since Chrome is also a Webkit browser.

On the Mac, Safari uses tons more resources than Firefox, playing the same video clip (try it and take look what the CPU and memory numbers are).

Anyway, since then my default browser is Firefox, themed to look and act just like Safari, only better. The latest Safari is also more stable, but still a resource hog, so even though it doesn't seem to matter in practice, I am not going back to it.

So, the bottom line is, if Apple wanted it, Flash would run just as well on Macs, as it does on Windows (virtually no overhead on W7 - like 1% CPU or less, in my tests).
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Old 02-15-2010, 06:49 PM   #32
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To give Adobe some credit-they acknowledged that Flash has has lagged in the Mac side, but think v.10.1 will fix it-Adobe's Kevin Lynch:

http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations...omment-2137153
Quote:
Now regarding performance, given identical hardware, Flash Player on Windows has historically been faster than the Mac, and it is for the most part the same code running in Flash for each operating system. We have and continue to invest significant effort to make Mac OS optimizations to close this gap, and Apple has been helpful in working with us on this. Vector graphics rendering in Flash Player 10 now runs almost exactly the same in terms of CPU usage across Mac and Windows, which is due to this work. In Flash Player 10.1 we are moving to CoreAnimation, which will further reduce CPU usage and we believe will get us to the point where Mac will be faster than Windows for graphics rendering.
And if you are interested in how Adobe is working with Apple's Core Animation framework this time around:
http://www.kaourantin.net/2010/02/core-animation.html


The interesting part of course, is that Core Animation is an API for Mac OSX (Leopard and Snow Leopard), but originated in the iPhone OS X...so will of course be part of the iPad's OS.

Last edited by kjk; 02-15-2010 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:16 PM   #33
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...
And if you are interested in how Adobe is working with Apple's Core Animation framework this time around:
http://www.kaourantin.net/2010/02/core-animation.html


The interesting part of course, is that Core Animation is an API for Mac OSX (Leopard and Snow Leopard), but originated in the iPhone OS X...so will of course be part of the iPad's OS.
Very interesting, indeed. I didn't really know this. Core Animation might send me back to Safari one day

Although, this may lend support to the argument that Apple is not letting Flash in for other reasons than performance issues.
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:44 AM   #34
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*bump*

As we're still getting new threads about Flash.
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Old 04-22-2010, 03:33 PM   #35
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Apple FINALLY Offers Low-Level Access!

After years of fanboys blaming Adobe and Steve Jobs calling Adobe "lazy," Apple has finally offered low-level access to H.264 decoding capabilities to third party developers.

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/04/22/tn2267

"New from Apple in Mac OS X 10.6.3:

The Video Decode Acceleration framework is a C programming interface providing low-level access to the H.264 decoding capabilities of compatible GPUs such as the NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, GeForce 320M or GeForce GT 330M. It is intended for use by advanced developers who specifically need hardware accelerated decode of video frames.

This sounds pretty much exactly like what Adobe has been asking for — it should provide a big improvement to Flash Player H.264 playback. (Via Michael Tsai.)
"

So, it was Apple's fault (but some of us knew this ) and now we may get better Flash performance in OS X. Unless Adobe is so pissed at Jobs by now, that it decides to screw the platform....

It may be limited to only certain hardware, though.
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Old 04-22-2010, 04:20 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Sonist View Post
After years of fanboys blaming Adobe and Steve Jobs calling Adobe "lazy," Apple has finally offered low-level access to H.264 decoding capabilities to third party developers.

[...]

So, it was Apple's fault (but some of us knew this ) and now we may get better Flash performance in OS X. Unless Adobe is so pissed at Jobs by now, that it decides to screw the platform....
Hardware acceleration of video won't fix Flash's horrendous performance elsewhere. A web site should not peg both cores on a 2 ghz system. Ever.

It is a step in the right direction, and I am glad Apple's opening up an API for it, but video is only a small part of the problem.
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Old 04-22-2010, 04:37 PM   #37
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Hardware acceleration of video won't fix Flash's horrendous performance elsewhere. A web site should not peg both cores on a 2 ghz system. Ever.

It is a step in the right direction, and I am glad Apple's opening up an API for it, but video is only a small part of the problem.
Frankly, Flash's performance is hardly "horrendous" on any my Macs, anyway. Most people can't tell if they are using Flash or not, and don't care.

(I have a white MacBook which runs its fans with Flash, but it does the same with any video, including QT and H.264, and any significant load (like even opening a large PS or PPT file. So it's most likely an Apple hardware/software design problem).

But, nevertheless it is a step in the right direction on Apple's part, after all these years.
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Old 04-22-2010, 06:49 PM   #38
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Well, here is my experiences with trying to go flash free...

I host a webpage for my friends' (amateur) band. On the webpage, I have little boxes for each of their albums and songs, and in these boxes, I embed a flash player that can be used to play the song. (I've been using the Creative Commons licensed dewplayer.) The flash player works great. I've never had any problems with it.

There are about 30 songs listed on the website.

So out comes the iPad, and I think to myself, oh, it would be great to have an HTML5 fall-back for the flash player for those who can't use flash...

So inside the <object> tags used to embed the flash player, I put in HTML5 audio tags to load an HTML5 audio player if flash is not supported. Worked fine in Firefox, Chrome and even Safari for windows.

So then my friend on a mac writes me an email telling me that every time he visits the webpage, it crashes his mac.

I investigate, and it turns out that Safari for mac does not honor the lack of the older-draft HTML5 autobuffer attribuite, nor does it support the newer "preload=none" HTML5 audio/video attribute, and as a result preloads all HTML5 audio or video on a page no matter how the page is coded. This is true even admitted by Safari. (I don't know about iPhones, but the iPad tries to autbuffer everything too, as I know from playing around with one at the store.)

So the result is that anyone trying to visit my page in Safari was slowed down by trying to autobuffer well over 100MB of audio files, usually resulting in a locked up browser, or at least lag so severe that it makes my site unusable.

Great Job, Mr. Jobs. Your arguments that flash is prone to crash got me to change my website, which worked fine when it was all flash, so that it crashes Apple's own browser on Apple products, but nothing else. Job well done, yes, Mr. Jobs.

So, I was forced to remove all the fallback HTML5 audio tags from the site. Then I decide that maybe the thing to do would be to use, instead, a play button, which when clicked, would, via javascript, insert the HTML5 audio tags then, so that they would only "exist", and hence only buffer once the button was clicked.

Anyway, that works just fine for most browsers I've tested with, but I tried loading my page with an iPad at the store, and the embedded audio files played, but at the wrong frequency, sounding like chipmunks. Maybe I could figure out what was wrong after some testing, and implement more work-arounds, but since I don't own any Apple products (and certainly am not going to buy them now), it's just too hard to do the necessary testing.

Anyway, I think I'm just going to give up completely trying to get HTML5 to work well with Mobile Safari, and just revert to flash-only.

And if you're curious, here's the site in question (the reverted-to original state, with only Flash players), and here is the temporary experimental page that has a fallback that inserts a button to insert the HTML5. (It'll look identical to the previous page if you have a flash plug in installed.)
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:41 PM   #39
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Well, the first major mobile platform with full Flash capabilities is, as expected, Android: Android 2.2 and Flash 10.1 coming May 20?

Is Android really more powerful OS than iPhone, you ask? Yes, and here is the proof:
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:46 PM   #40
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I'll definitely be interested in seeing how tablets with the newer versions of Android work.

I'm skeptical that it will be ideal--it just seems like tablets need something more than smartphone/PDA Operating Systems. Don't really need a full OS either, so maybe Android can be tweaked to work great.
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:50 PM   #41
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was that taken with your actual android..? oh. no. it wasn't..

please. send us a screenshot when you're actually running flash on your android. thanks!
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:07 PM   #42
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was that taken with your actual android..? oh. no. it wasn't..

please. send us a screenshot when you're actually running flash on your android. thanks!
First, the pic was a joke. (What's your problem, really?)

Second, I have an iPhone 3G S.

Third, I posted a headline which clearly states MAY 20.

Fourth, if you want to see a beta from 2 months ago, do a search. There are many samples, but here is one with video: http://www.intomobile.com/2010/03/21...this-time.html
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:13 PM   #43
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My point is, please feel free to share screenshots from actual shipping products when you have them in your hand. I can show you plenty of screenshots of "Duke Nukem Forever" and we all know where that went.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:33 PM   #44
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It was a joke. It wasn't supposed to show anything more than the character "The Flash" missing from the Apple picture and present in the Android one.

I'm assuming you weren't familiar with the character and the joke went over your head. Only explanation I can come up with for your absurd reaction to it. As if it was the joke that offended you, then you really do need to stick to dedicated Apple sites as that was a pretty tame joke!

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Old 04-30-2010, 12:23 AM   #45
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Great Job, Mr. Jobs. Your arguments that flash is prone to crash got me to change my website, which worked fine when it was all flash, so that it crashes Apple's own browser on Apple products, but nothing else. Job well done, yes, Mr. Jobs.
Poor Steve can't deal with the truth. His software staff should quit worshiping at their leader's feet and take a few courses on Remedial Programming 101. If Flash means Crash, why does Flash take up less than 10% of the CPU time on my Windows XP dinosaur computer, when I visit the website Frab's referred to? I turned on 10 songs and a video, in an attempt to push my browser (Chrome) to its limits. It did not skip a beat. Why do we keep debating this subject? Chrome, Firefox and IE can deal with Flash, but Stevie's crybaby programmers can't. The Emperor has no clothes! When are responsible people going to call him out on that?
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