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Old 02-04-2015, 01:20 AM   #16
darryl
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Originally Posted by meeera View Post
Is there a way of getting a direct download from Amazon? Right now, my workflow is:

Kobo (non-kepub-only, obv, which is most of them): Download via ADE, pull file out (easy because it usually is named transparently), deDRM (either via standalone app or third-party Calibre plugin), Calibre.

Kindle: Download via Kindle for Mac, pull file out (somewhat less easy because it has a nonsense filename; find hidden Kindle for Mac folder and sort by date, then find file), deDRM (either via standalone app or third-party Calibre plugin), Calibre.

These seem pretty similar to me. I continue to use an old version of ADE (1.7.2).

Kepub: download via Kobo app, usu Obok third-party Calibre plugin, done.
If you purchase on your computer from the Amazon website you have the option to download the file directly to your computer. No need to extract it from Kindle to Mac at all.
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Old 02-04-2015, 01:51 AM   #17
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If you purchase on your computer from the Amazon website you have the option to download the file directly to your computer. No need to extract it from Kindle to Mac at all.
The download option is only available if you have a Kindle device registered to your account. Otherwise, you need Kindle for PC/Mac just like B&N and now possibly Kobo.
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Old 02-04-2015, 02:10 AM   #18
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The download option is only available if you have a Kindle device registered to your account. Otherwise, you need Kindle for PC/Mac just like B&N and now possibly Kobo.
Thanks. I've had a Kindle so long I wasn't aware of this. I suppose it does make some sense when the option is labelled as transfer to your device by USB.
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Old 02-04-2015, 02:43 AM   #19
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I've had a Tor DRM-free ePub that won't download at kobo, too. In my case it was free (it was the new Best of Tor.com), so I didn't even bother to chase it up. It does make me wonder if my older direct download links still work.

I think I'm done with kobo.
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Old 02-04-2015, 06:22 AM   #20
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After reading through the thread, I have to ask: What did Kobo say when you complained? You did ask them what was going on, didn't you? After all, it sounds like they have a problem. Either the file isn't where it was supposed to be, or they had a button that shouldn't have been there.

For Obok, did you use the latest calibre plugin? That should show both DRM protected and DRM free books that the Kobo desktop application has downloaded.
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:03 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
After reading through the thread, I have to ask: What did Kobo say when you complained? You did ask them what was going on, didn't you? After all, it sounds like they have a problem. Either the file isn't where it was supposed to be, or they had a button that shouldn't have been there.
No, I didn't ask them what was going on. Because it's pretty clear what's going on. It's not a mistake, it's a tactic. All they would offer is a refund if I complained. Then I could take that refund to B&N and be in the same boat--there's NO download button there. Working or otherwise. I want the book not the money.

Quote:
For Obok, did you use the latest calibre plugin? That should show both DRM protected and DRM free books that the Kobo desktop application has downloaded.
No idea. I grew tired of obok being the red-headed stepchild of drm removal tools and stopped bothering trying to track down updates for it. It's like it's too cool to hang out with the other kids or something. Not to mention that the idea of needing a DRM removal tool to make retrieving a drm-free epub easier is fairly offensive to me in the first place.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:44 AM   #22
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I did complain and they removed the book from my library and now I'm waiting for it to get back.
The sad thing is that I first bought it at amazon an asked for refund because calibre complained it had DRM-it was a Tor book and I was annoyed. Omnilit won't let me buy it, and kobo doesn't have download option. I couldn't use obok because my PC has linux. The next book from same author is on my wishlist, I have no idea where I'm going to buy that.
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Old 02-04-2015, 09:15 AM   #23
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Clearly you need to buy a Windows PC (with every retailer's desktop software you can find installed) and one ereader device from each of the major players just to ensure that you can retrieve/read any ebook that the publisher/author was kind enough to release without DRM for our "convenience."

Seriously. What right do retailers have to re-complicate and obfuscate what a publisher like Tor has gone out of their way to make so simple? In the case of Kobo ... there's little difference between a DRM-free kepub and an encrypted epub, in practice. Both are buried so deep into a portion of the OS that's invisible by default as to make them unattainable for the average user.

Tor has entrusted me with a file without Digital Rights Management so that I may copy it to my personal devices and format shift if necessary. Get out of their (Tor's) way please Mr Retailer Man.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 02-04-2015 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 02-04-2015, 09:52 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by danicca View Post
I did complain and they removed the book from my library and now I'm waiting for it to get back.
The sad thing is that I first bought it at amazon an asked for refund because calibre complained it had DRM-it was a Tor book and I was annoyed. Omnilit won't let me buy it, and kobo doesn't have download option. I couldn't use obok because my PC has linux. The next book from same author is on my wishlist, I have no idea where I'm going to buy that.
Which Tor book was it?

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Old 02-04-2015, 10:19 AM   #25
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I won't speak for danicca, but the Tor book I had trouble with was "Karen Memory" -- a new release from Elizabeth Bear.

I've since sent an email to Customer Support voicing my questions/concerns/displeasure, but I've only asked that I be able to download the drm-free epub in question from my Kobo Library (like the button indicates I should be able to do). I don't need/want a refund, as I already finagled the file out of the obfuscated mess where Kobo Desktop buries these ebook files. The files that some publishers/authors tried to make very accessible to me.
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:46 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by meeera View Post
Is there a way of getting a direct download from Amazon? Right now, my workflow is:

Kobo (non-kepub-only, obv, which is most of them): Download via ADE, pull file out (easy because it usually is named transparently), deDRM (either via standalone app or third-party Calibre plugin), Calibre.

Kindle: Download via Kindle for Mac, pull file out (somewhat less easy because it has a nonsense filename; find hidden Kindle for Mac folder and sort by date, then find file), deDRM (either via standalone app or third-party Calibre plugin), Calibre.

These seem pretty similar to me. I continue to use an old version of ADE (1.7.2).

Kepub: download via Kobo app, usu Obok third-party Calibre plugin, done.
They are very similar. The difference is that you never have to worry if a book can be downloaded to Kindle for PC, because they always can. With certain minor exceptions (fixed-format) and they ALWAYS say on the product page which devices can get that book.

As for oboK, it is relatively new, and it shouldn't be necessary to do all kinds of preprocessing just to allow calibre to import the book.
I would suggest the following step: make Kindle for Mac your Auto-Add folder, and set it as your default device on http://amzn.com/myk.
Now all new books will queue for delivery there, and when you open K4Mac it will download all new books.
calibre will add them and remove the originals, allowing it to keep track of new books.

All you need to do now is periodically open K4Mac and leave it to download new books, then open calibre and leave it to auto-add books. Minimal effort involved.

You can only do that when the actual service provides recognizable books.
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:48 AM   #27
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It was the last Modesitt book.
I'm also interested in book, not in refund, because I'm waiting on the next one and I did grab it via kepub thing. I do have others from same author in library and I downloaded those just fine (but I probably ought to check whether they're still available, ugh)
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Old 02-04-2015, 03:29 PM   #28
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I checked some of my older Tor books and they were all fine.

Interestingly the new one does not say it is a DRM-free ePub in the details at the bottom of the book's page, although it does have the download button in the library.
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:13 PM   #29
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No, I didn't ask them what was going on. Because it's pretty clear what's going on. It's not a mistake, it's a tactic. All they would offer is a refund if I complained. Then I could take that refund to B&N and be in the same boat--there's NO download button there. Working or otherwise. I want the book not the money.
Sorry, but that's bullshit. If there is a button to download the file and it doesn't work, there is a bug. They deserve the opportunity to fix the problem. And the only way they can know, without testing every single link from every single browser and operating system and language and lots of other things that are different, is if the person who discovers the problem tells them.
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No idea. I grew tired of obok being the red-headed stepchild of drm removal tools and stopped bothering trying to track down updates for it. It's like it's too cool to hang out with the other kids or something. Not to mention that the idea of needing a DRM removal tool to make retrieving a drm-free epub easier is fairly offensive to me in the first place.
Obok was developed by a different person than the other DRM removal tools, so it is quite reasonable for it not to be in the same place.
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Clearly you need to buy a Windows PC (with every retailer's desktop software you can find installed) and one ereader device from each of the major players just to ensure that you can retrieve/read any ebook that the publisher/author was kind enough to release without DRM for our "convenience."

Seriously. What right do retailers have to re-complicate and obfuscate what a publisher like Tor has gone out of their way to make so simple? In the case of Kobo ... there's little difference between a DRM-free kepub and an encrypted epub, in practice. Both are buried so deep into a portion of the OS that's invisible by default as to make them unattainable for the average user.

Tor has entrusted me with a file without Digital Rights Management so that I may copy it to my personal devices and format shift if necessary. Get out of their (Tor's) way please Mr Retailer Man.
So it is wrong for Kobo to develop their application to follow Microsoft's standards? Yes, you can make an argument that they should be in the documents directory, but where they are is a valid place for data that is only to be used by the one application. The DRM protected books fit into that category and it would make no sense to separate them. The issue is not how these books are downloaded using the Kobo application or even the need to use the application. The issue is that Kobo have a problem preventing the book from being downloaded from their web site when clearly it is intended that they should be. When Kobo fix that, the problem goes away. And if this is important to you, Kobo is already ahead of Amazon as they do offer direct download links for DRM free books. Personally, I have never had a problem when I went to download books I have purchased from Kobo.
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:48 PM   #30
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Sorry, but that's bullshit. If there is a button to download the file and it doesn't work, there is a bug. They deserve the opportunity to fix the problem. And the only way they can know, without testing every single link from every single browser and operating system and language and lots of other things that are different, is if the person who discovers the problem tells them.
It is a little odd, is it not, how Kobo seems to be far more prone to website issues of so many kinds, than other vendors?

And why, precisely, would they not be responsible for actually testing their website in multiple browsers at the very least?
Let us leave aside the issue of OS and language. I feel safe assuming DiapDealer was using Kobo Desktop on Windows, and using English as a language... so that is probably not the issue...
Let us leave aside the issue that Kobo should not be having so many problems with a nominally standards-compliant Internet browser.

I would be more inclined to hear your argument if Kobo didn't have a reputation for being quite inept in that regard. Unnaturally inept, as far as I am concerned.

Quote:
Obok was developed by a different person than the other DRM removal tools, so it is quite reasonable for it not to be in the same place.
That does not mean they cannot fall under the same umbrella. Alf now hosts tools that were worked on by several different people, you would think oboK could be included with the rest. But that is I think Alf's fault.

You have not even touched on the other point raised -- "Not to mention that the idea of needing a DRM removal tool to make retrieving a drm-free epub easier is fairly offensive to me in the first place."

Quote:
So it is wrong for Kobo to develop their application to follow Microsoft's standards? Yes, you can make an argument that they should be in the documents directory, but where they are is a valid place for data that is only to be used by the one application. The DRM protected books fit into that category and it would make no sense to separate them. The issue is not how these books are downloaded using the Kobo application or even the need to use the application. The issue is that Kobo have a problem preventing the book from being downloaded from their web site when clearly it is intended that they should be. When Kobo fix that, the problem goes away. And if this is important to you, Kobo is already ahead of Amazon as they do offer direct download links for DRM free books. Personally, I have never had a problem when I went to download books I have purchased from Kobo.
Well, Kindle for PC has files stored in Documents\My Kindle Content\ despite being specific to that one application. It makes it usable when the book is DRM-free.

Amazon is miles ahead of Kobo -- all you need do is install the desktop application and you can access all your books. There is never any hassle or doubt. On the rare occasion you cannot download it (it is a fixed-format book or something), the product page clearly states which devices are supported -- and they never fail to be clear and accurate about where you can and cannot use them.

Kobo's claim to be so much more awesome and cool because they provide direct download links is a paper tiger, until they can actually do so with some sense of consistency.

Google, last I heard, is also quite good at consistency, because apparently serious companies take business seriously.
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