Pixel Qi's 3Qi hybrid e-paper not in May, maybe in next two months - Page 4

jgray · 05-31-2009, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brecklundin

Don't put stock in WAG guesses about pricing just yet.

You missed my final sentence where I say we'll have to wait and see.

As for how good/bad these displays are, I'll reserve judgement until I can see one for myself. Having said that, the press so far does make it sound like a very nice technology.

I agree that there are some folks here who seem overly sensitive about their favorite display technology and/or ereader. I've tried to stay objective about that. If you haven't already, see my comments about why I returned a very nice Sony PRS-505 and then purchased a Jetbook. IMHO the Sony and its epub support beat the Jetbook, but the Jetbook display is more readable to me. So, I am living with what for me is the best compromise ereader at this time. Next year, I may see something else that I like better (if I can afford it).

It seems that the next year or so will finally see the release of several new display technologies. This is a good thing. It gives us more choice and eventually should drive the prices down.

Hadrien · 06-01-2009, 06:00 PM

Side by side comparaison of the Kindle & Pixel Qi 3Qi: http://pixelqi.com/blog1/wp-content/...eadingmode.jpg

soilwork · 06-01-2009, 06:08 PM

That is impressive. Hope some company comes out with 10 inch reader with 3Qi screen at cheaper price than Kindle DX.

Sonist · 06-01-2009, 07:36 PM

Interesting. In color too. It does have a bit of the greenish tint of LCD, but it doesn't seem bad. I still like the whiter/gray look of the Kindle screen next to it.

But if there is no flicker, no backlight, and decent contrast, it is certainly a very enticing proposition.

And with a large screen, and full PDF support, I think it may be a winner (I have to see it in person, though :-)

momghoti · 06-01-2009, 08:07 PM

My question is about durability. People are talking about use for elementary-school age kids--I would think that a flexible e-ink screen would be better. Actually, considering some of the comments about screen breakage, a flexible screen would be better for portability in general. I'm not sure a computer with a screen like this would appeal to me to replace my dedicated ereader, but I would *dearly* love to have a screen like that on my laptop. Not only would it increase battery life but too much back-lit reading--like forums

--tends to give me migraines.

brecklundin · 06-01-2009, 08:19 PM

I was able to clean up the image a fair amount. Just some sharpening and adjusting white balance (we know the Kindle is white)...but while it is cool to have the shot, it's pretty poor image quality (IQ) so there isn't much revealed from the edit.

I was hoping to see if the protective plastic on the bezel extends over the display. Every laptop I have ever purchased has had a protective cover, but in this case, I would hope the removed it for the demo. Thing is, because the shot is so noisy it's had to determine if there is a something over the display itself. It does appear that the plastic on the bezel does not extend onto the display, but it still does not mean something is not there...and in my experience those screen protectors used at the factor are usually somewhat green tinted to help people know they are there.

Still, if that is the display mode w/o back-lighting/daylight readable mode, I would be FINE with that as a device. I just am looking forward to more details over the week.

I can post a copy of the modified shot if the person who took it lets me...I'll post smaller here with a link to a full size version. Or maybe someone better with LR or PS than I am can clean it up some more so we can compare.

I will add that once enlarged and all, the text looks pretty crisp and I see no bleeding, even at 4:1, it is at worst equal to the Kindle in the shot in that area. So, that's nice news, especially as it is essentially a PC that will have oodles of fonts from which to choose.

Looking better every day!

sirbruce · 06-01-2009, 08:20 PM

That Kindle 1 screen looks fuzzier than my Kindle 2 screen.

brecklundin · 06-01-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momghoti

My question is about durability. People are talking about use for elementary-school age kids--I would think that a flexible e-ink screen would be better. Actually, considering some of the comments about screen breakage, a flexible screen would be better for portability in general. I'm not sure a computer with a screen like this would appeal to me to replace my dedicated ereader, but I would *dearly* love to have a screen like that on my laptop. Not only would it increase battery life but too much back-lit reading--like forums

--tends to give me migraines.

Look at the display used for the IpHoNe...it is pretty much indestructible and it's not plastic. It depends on the glass used for the display. They can make glass almost impossible to break or scratch these days. it's a very interesting branch of chemistry and engineering.

Just because a screen is flexible does not mean it will survive a 7yr old on a mission...scissors can do as much damage to a flexible display as can a rock or hammer to a standard glass display. Twisting is the killer for most ebook reading devices though but that can be fixed with a solid internal frame.

brecklundin · 06-01-2009, 08:29 PM

sirbruce:

It's the photo itself. It's noisy and not well exposed and, well, pretty crappy IQ wise. But it is MUCH better than nothing. If you edit it the text sharpens up well enough to see it's as good as my K1. Still is going to be fuzzy-ish or blotchy because of the poor exposure.

brecklundin · 06-01-2009, 08:36 PM

Here is a 100% crop of the shot showing the text:

Here is a link to view other sizes of the image if you want

EDIT: I have to say after looking at the cleaned up version of the devices that the Pixel Qi display is actually crisper text to my eye. Still that can easily be the result of the dismally poor original shot. Still, I see a lot of what good ol' Mary Lou was tell us is true...exciting stuff for sure.

Now my conundrum will be a new & much needed lens or a PiQ based reading device this summer? I had planed on waiting until after the first of the year, buuuut, this might be that game changer I was hoping for...and, yup the gen 1 devices will likely be simply retrofitted with the display so no change to re-design the guts to be more efficient. One hope I have is they will not use the lower power display to go with a beefier CPU and video hardware that will eat up any power savings the display would offer.

301verbs · 06-02-2009, 01:28 AM

Is this really the black and white mode? It looks like the sunlight-color mode (as opposed to the indoor color mode). For example, the Xs on the network connection icons look red.

Or maybe it means that what Jepsen calls epaper mode isn't just black and white.

brecklundin · 06-02-2009, 01:41 AM

yeah, sans any actual facts we just don't know. Plus I sense this is a very rough knocked together device to show mfg's how easily they can move to the newer technology with only some driver changes and maybe firmware/display adapter tweaks.

soilwork · 06-02-2009, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 301verbs

Is this really the black and white mode? It looks like the sunlight-color mode (as opposed to the indoor color mode). For example, the Xs on the network connection icons look red.

Or maybe it means that what Jepsen calls epaper mode isn't just black and white.

According to Wired article, 3Qi screen has three modes.
1) a full-color, bright, conventional LCD mode
2) a low-power, basic color transflective mode
3) a very low-power, sunlight-readable, reflective e-paper mode
I guess the photo is showing the screen in the second mode.
In Jepson's blog, it says '3qi display with backlight off' so she did not mention it is in epaper mode.

brecklundin · 06-02-2009, 02:13 AM

soilwork:

nice find on the details. I think you are correct, it's the 2nd mode. Which is pretty nice and being transreflective it will work in well lit situations. It might not be for everyone, but having the three modes will sure be a very nice option.

I'll have to read the article closely and see if it discusses the environments where each mode is best suited.

Anyone notices that this screen alone is making the universal device we have all been hunting/hoping for, for over a decade now, a real thing. Sure there are still going to be trade-offs, but if I can have what a netbook already offers along with the ability to give an epaper reading configuration, to me that is "the one".

IgnareAcademy · 06-02-2009, 02:39 AM

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

"A transflective liquid crystal display is a liquid crystal display (LCD) that reflects and transmits light (transflective = transmissive + reflective). Under bright illumination (e.g. when exposed to daylight) the display acts mainly as a reflectve display with the contrast being constant with illuminance. Only in dim and dark ambient situations an auxiliary transmissive backlight should be provided. When an illuminance sensor is added for control of the backlight, such a transflective LCD can be read over a wide range of illuminance levels. This is why that technique is often found in automotive instrumentation. In portable electronic devices the transflective mode of operation helps to save battery charge, since in bright environments no backlighting is required.

The essential component for a transflective LCD is the transflector, a polymer sheet that is reflecting and transmitting at the same time."

So the real test will be a picture in e-paper mode.

06-01-2009, 08:07 PM	#50
momghoti Zealot Posts: 121 Karma: 1000021 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hook, UK Device: Cybook Bookeen	My question is about durability. People are talking about use for elementary-school age kids--I would think that a flexible e-ink screen would be better. Actually, considering some of the comments about screen breakage, a flexible screen would be better for portability in general. I'm not sure a computer with a screen like this would appeal to me to replace my dedicated ereader, but I would dearly love to have a screen like that on my laptop. Not only would it increase battery life but too much back-lit reading--like forums--tends to give me migraines.

06-01-2009, 08:36 PM	#55
brecklundin Banned Posts: 1,906 Karma: 15348 Join Date: Jun 2007 Device: mine	Here is a 100% crop of the shot showing the text: Here is a link to view other sizes of the image if you want EDIT: I have to say after looking at the cleaned up version of the devices that the Pixel Qi display is actually crisper text to my eye. Still that can easily be the result of the dismally poor original shot. Still, I see a lot of what good ol' Mary Lou was tell us is true...exciting stuff for sure. Now my conundrum will be a new & much needed lens or a PiQ based reading device this summer? I had planed on waiting until after the first of the year, buuuut, this might be that game changer I was hoping for...and, yup the gen 1 devices will likely be simply retrofitted with the display so no change to re-design the guts to be more efficient. One hope I have is they will not use the lower power display to go with a beefier CPU and video hardware that will eat up any power savings the display would offer. Last edited by brecklundin; 06-02-2009 at 02:58 AM.

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06-01-2009, 06:00 PM	#47
Hadrien Feedbooks.com Co-Founder Posts: 2,263 Karma: 145123 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Paris, France Device: Sony PRS-t-1/350/300/500/505/600/700, Nexus S, iPad	Side by side comparaison of the Kindle & Pixel Qi 3Qi: http://pixelqi.com/blog1/wp-content/...eadingmode.jpg

06-01-2009, 06:08 PM	#48
soilwork useR! Posts: 299 Karma: 651 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NY Device: Onyx Boox Max 2, Kobo Libra H2O, iRiver Story HD	That is impressive. Hope some company comes out with 10 inch reader with 3Qi screen at cheaper price than Kindle DX.

06-01-2009, 07:36 PM	#49
Sonist Apeist Posts: 2,126 Karma: 381090 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The sunny part of California Device: Generic virtual reality story-experiential device	Interesting. In color too. It does have a bit of the greenish tint of LCD, but it doesn't seem bad. I still like the whiter/gray look of the Kindle screen next to it. But if there is no flicker, no backlight, and decent contrast, it is certainly a very enticing proposition. And with a large screen, and full PDF support, I think it may be a winner (I have to see it in person, though :-)

06-01-2009, 08:19 PM	#51
brecklundin Banned Posts: 1,906 Karma: 15348 Join Date: Jun 2007 Device: mine	I was able to clean up the image a fair amount. Just some sharpening and adjusting white balance (we know the Kindle is white)...but while it is cool to have the shot, it's pretty poor image quality (IQ) so there isn't much revealed from the edit. I was hoping to see if the protective plastic on the bezel extends over the display. Every laptop I have ever purchased has had a protective cover, but in this case, I would hope the removed it for the demo. Thing is, because the shot is so noisy it's had to determine if there is a something over the display itself. It does appear that the plastic on the bezel does not extend onto the display, but it still does not mean something is not there...and in my experience those screen protectors used at the factor are usually somewhat green tinted to help people know they are there. Still, if that is the display mode w/o back-lighting/daylight readable mode, I would be FINE with that as a device. I just am looking forward to more details over the week. I can post a copy of the modified shot if the person who took it lets me...I'll post smaller here with a link to a full size version. Or maybe someone better with LR or PS than I am can clean it up some more so we can compare. I will add that once enlarged and all, the text looks pretty crisp and I see no bleeding, even at 4:1, it is at worst equal to the Kindle in the shot in that area. So, that's nice news, especially as it is essentially a PC that will have oodles of fonts from which to choose. Looking better every day!

06-01-2009, 08:20 PM	#52
sirbruce Provocateur Posts: 1,859 Karma: 505847 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Columbus, OH Device: Kindle Touch, Kindle 2, Kindle DX, iPhone 3GS	That Kindle 1 screen looks fuzzier than my Kindle 2 screen.

06-01-2009, 08:29 PM	#54
brecklundin Banned Posts: 1,906 Karma: 15348 Join Date: Jun 2007 Device: mine	sirbruce: It's the photo itself. It's noisy and not well exposed and, well, pretty crappy IQ wise. But it is MUCH better than nothing. If you edit it the text sharpens up well enough to see it's as good as my K1. Still is going to be fuzzy-ish or blotchy because of the poor exposure.

06-02-2009, 01:28 AM	#56
301verbs Enthusiast Posts: 27 Karma: 12 Join Date: May 2009 Device: none yet	Is this really the black and white mode? It looks like the sunlight-color mode (as opposed to the indoor color mode). For example, the Xs on the network connection icons look red. Or maybe it means that what Jepsen calls epaper mode isn't just black and white.

06-02-2009, 01:41 AM	#57
brecklundin Banned Posts: 1,906 Karma: 15348 Join Date: Jun 2007 Device: mine	yeah, sans any actual facts we just don't know. Plus I sense this is a very rough knocked together device to show mfg's how easily they can move to the newer technology with only some driver changes and maybe firmware/display adapter tweaks.

06-02-2009, 02:13 AM	#59
brecklundin Banned Posts: 1,906 Karma: 15348 Join Date: Jun 2007 Device: mine	soilwork: nice find on the details. I think you are correct, it's the 2nd mode. Which is pretty nice and being transreflective it will work in well lit situations. It might not be for everyone, but having the three modes will sure be a very nice option. I'll have to read the article closely and see if it discusses the environments where each mode is best suited. Anyone notices that this screen alone is making the universal device we have all been hunting/hoping for, for over a decade now, a real thing. Sure there are still going to be trade-offs, but if I can have what a netbook already offers along with the ability to give an epaper reading configuration, to me that is "the one".

06-02-2009, 02:39 AM	#60
IgnareAcademy Banned Posts: 49 Karma: 50 Join Date: May 2009 Device: Hanlin clone	From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: "A transflective liquid crystal display is a liquid crystal display (LCD) that reflects and transmits light (transflective = transmissive + reflective). Under bright illumination (e.g. when exposed to daylight) the display acts mainly as a reflectve display with the contrast being constant with illuminance. Only in dim and dark ambient situations an auxiliary transmissive backlight should be provided. When an illuminance sensor is added for control of the backlight, such a transflective LCD can be read over a wide range of illuminance levels. This is why that technique is often found in automotive instrumentation. In portable electronic devices the transflective mode of operation helps to save battery charge, since in bright environments no backlighting is required. The essential component for a transflective LCD is the transflector, a polymer sheet that is reflecting and transmitting at the same time." So the real test will be a picture in e-paper mode.

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