How do I make either end notes of footnotes in epub? - Page 4

GeoffC · 07-27-2010, 04:38 AM

I'm glad no one mentioned side-notes ...

charleski · 07-27-2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

I'm glad no one mentioned side-notes ...

DBW has an interesting article on how to handle them.

DaleDe · 07-27-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eping

But all these have nothing to do with ePub itself, they are things of readers on devices. And now, all ePub readers still need much more improvement. (Even many basic XHTML and CSS features not implemented) They are just like web browsers 15 or 20 years ago.

Actually there is some tie to ePUB format. Currently the definition of footnotes is not designed in a fashion that allows the reader to do what we have defined in this thread. There is no specific tag assigned to footnotes like my example of <note> which is mandatory to identify the footnote contents. ePUB standard needs updating to define this.

Dale

eping · 07-27-2010, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Actually there is some tie to ePUB format. Currently the definition of footnotes is not designed in a fashion that allows the reader to do what we have defined in this thread. There is no specific tag assigned to footnotes like my example of <note> which is mandatory to identify the footnote contents. ePUB standard needs updating to define this.

Dale

Yes, but add a <note> tag is so simple, they just need type some words in their standard document, but the problem is if and when will those companies support and implement it.
Actually, I think ePub should give up XHTML,adopt a more simple markable language only for books, such as naming BML or so.
<book>
<head><title value=''/><author value=''/><cover src=''/>
<style></style></head>
<body>
<chapter id=1><title/><text>....</text></chater>
<chapter id=2><title/><text>....</text></chater>
</body>
</book>
It uses XML for global structure, simplified HTML + CSS for content.

Notes can be written as
<text>
<p>abc<n src=1/>def</p>
</text>
<notes>
<n id=1>...</n>
<n id=2>...</n>
</notes>

GeoffC · 07-28-2010, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charleski

DBW has an interesting article on how to handle them.

i walked right into that one ....

only possible, though, on readers of a suitable girth or the ability to switch to landscape mode. in some ways perhaps just a mite tidier than footnotes ?

EricDP · 07-29-2010, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eping

Actually, I think ePub should give up XHTML,adopt a more simple markable language only for books, such as naming BML or so.

That's pretty much what they did, only it's called OPS (Open Publication Standard), not BML, for the content. OPS is not XHTML+CSS. It is, for the most part, a subset of XHTML+CSS, with some eBook-specific additions. Put simply, if you code to the full set of XHTML+CSS you will not have an OPS compliant book. And if you code to the full set of OPS you will not have compliant XHTML+CSS.

e.g. "display: inline-block" is not valid in an OPS Style Sheet, but it is valid in CSS

e.g. "display: oeb-page-head" is valid in an OPS Style Sheet, but not in CSS

An EPUB is OPS content organized by in an OPF structure and encapsulated in an OCF container.

OPF - Open Package Format - basically describes how all the files need to be organized, and the metadata file (the .opf file) that needs to be included to define the contents.

OCF - Open Container Format - describes how all these separate files are to be combined into a single file for easy transport. It basically says use ZIP.

Back to the topic of this converstain, they could easily define another "display" type for footnote and it would solve our problem, except, just like "oeb-page-head" and "oeb-page-foot", it would likely go unimplemented. It seems (at least for now) that all the vendors are just using existing web rendering engines and they haven't (yet) done much to extend to OPS. Some even render illegal tags (like "display: inline-block"), that they clearly didn't implement from scratch - they got it from their existing kit.

Freeshadow · 07-31-2010, 01:30 PM

Quote:

It seems (at least for now) that all the vendors are just using existing web rendering engines and they haven't (yet) done much to extend to OPS.

that's the pain ain't it?

keriah · 08-04-2010, 07:09 PM

Is it possible to create a link to an endnote (or similar) that then supports the reader going back to the reading point, without creating an explicit link-back associated with the endnote? I cannot create a "return" link at the endnote because the endnote (actually, a reference item in the Bibliography) is pointed to from many places in the book, so an explicit, single return-to value is not possible. And the iPad has no physical 'back' button for the return.

Alternatively, is there a way to make the citation information appear in some form of "pop up" at the point of reading (similar to the 'hover' that can be created using javascript on a web page)?

GeoffC · 08-05-2010, 05:35 AM

Welcome to mobileread ... keriah .... I, and I'm sure others, will be watching the experts answer that one .... Great question !

pdurrant · 08-05-2010, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keriah

Is it possible to create a link to an endnote (or similar) that then supports the reader going back to the reading point, without creating an explicit link-back associated with the endnote? I cannot create a "return" link at the endnote because the endnote (actually, a reference item in the Bibliography) is pointed to from many places in the book, so an explicit, single return-to value is not possible. And the iPad has no physical 'back' button for the return.

The only way I can think to do this in any way that will work without a back button is to have multiple copies of your endnote, each linking back to one of the references. An ugly solution, but it might be sufficient.

GeoffC · 08-06-2010, 04:32 AM

Seems like a case for side-notes or footnotes, rather than end notes .... better still, perhaps pop-ups ....

Jellby · 08-06-2010, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

The only way I can think to do this in any way that will work without a back button is to have multiple copies of your endnote, each linking back to one of the references. An ugly solution, but it might be sufficient.

I've just seen this in a Project Gutenberg HTML book, it took me a while to realize what was happening. I'm creating an ePUB version, and I'll remove the duplicate notes.

keriah · 08-06-2010, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Seems like a case for side-notes or footnotes, rather than end notes .... better still, perhaps pop-ups ....

Is there a way to create a pop-up in an ePub? Something of that nature is what I would prefer to use. (That would also be useful for glossary-listed terms.)

GeoffC · 08-06-2010, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keriah

Is there a way to create a pop-up in an ePub? Something of that nature is what I would prefer to use. (That would also be useful for glossary-listed terms.)

It is not supported.

capidamonte · 08-06-2010, 04:42 PM

ePub supports float:left, float:right doesn't it?

You can make side notes by styling them with a different background or font, and floating them left or right. I've done it in XHTML ebooks. The Reading System needs to be sophisticated enough to display it properly, though, and that's where most ereaders break down.

08-04-2010, 07:09 PM	#53
keriah Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: iPad	how to link-to and then go-back (without a return link) Is it possible to create a link to an endnote (or similar) that then supports the reader going back to the reading point, without creating an explicit link-back associated with the endnote? I cannot create a "return" link at the endnote because the endnote (actually, a reference item in the Bibliography) is pointed to from *many* places in the book, so an explicit, single return-to value is not possible. And the iPad has no physical 'back' button for the return. Alternatively, is there a way to make the citation information appear in some form of "pop up" at the point of reading (similar to the 'hover' that can be created using javascript on a web page)?

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07-27-2010, 04:38 AM	#46
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,600 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	I'm glad no one mentioned side-notes ...

08-05-2010, 05:35 AM	#54
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,600 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	Welcome to mobileread ... keriah .... I, and I'm sure others, will be watching the experts answer that one .... Great question !

08-06-2010, 04:32 AM	#56
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,600 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	Seems like a case for side-notes or footnotes, rather than end notes .... better still, perhaps pop-ups ....

08-06-2010, 04:42 PM	#60
capidamonte Not who you think I am... Posts: 374 Karma: 30283 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Honolulu Device: PocketBook 360 -- Ivory	ePub supports float:left, float:right doesn't it? You can make side notes by styling them with a different background or font, and floating them left or right. I've done it in XHTML ebooks. The Reading System needs to be sophisticated enough to display it properly, though, and that's where most ereaders break down.

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