So, briefly, what do you think about the Kindle now?

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You said that it eliminates my first sales rights. I'm just saying that I don't have these rights which you claim that I do. Your argument is therefore invalid.

I will point out that this thread is about the Kindle.

And since the Kindle is a U.S. only offering, U.K. laws are irrelevant.

[CCDMan]

Compared to other DRM-encumbered products on the Internet....The market has set the price at $1 for disposable content.

You must mean music. You sure can't mean books. You simply cannot compare a 5 minute song to a book. The very idea is laughable.

Other DRM content such as music or movies is OTHER DRM CONTENT and is totally and completely irrelevant to this discussion. Hmm, I bought my last car for 27K, I guess I should be able to buy an 18 wheeler for about the same price.

Free is the fair market price for DRMed content.

Which market? Fair market price in the legitimate market is set by that market and that has been set by the market for DRM BOOKS (mostly Sony and Amazon at this point). People are willing to pay that. People ARE paying that, by the tens of thousands they are paying that. The legitimate marketplace for DRM books is Sony and Amazon and the like. It is not Pirate Bay or peer-to peer networks any more than Bubba in the alley behind the bar is the legitimate marketplace for weapons.

There is White market and Black market. They coexist nearly everywhere there is a market.
Price in one may affect prices in the other (or may not) but they are never the SAME prices. One just has to decide which market one shops in. This a moral decision more than an economic one. So are you gonna buy or are you gonna steal? I can't speak for others but I will buy legitimate if the price is acceptable to me or not buy at all if it is not - stealing is not an option.

If you are saying that thieves are setting the market price then everything everywhere has a "correct" price of zero (or maybe 10-20 if you get caught). Just because there are lots of thieves does not make thieving right.

Now don't get me wrong, I think DRM is dumb and it is not helping the industry and they could almost certainly sell more content and make more money w/o it. That does not translate into a justification for stealing content. If one wants to change the system, the way to do it is to patronize sellers like BAEN. I have done that. I probably have 5 times more BAEN books on my readers than all the DRM content combined.

[Alisa]

If folks don't mind, I'm going to drag this thread back to the Kindle for a minute. I got mine yesterday and so far I'm finding it very comfortable to use. I'm not having trouble hitting buttons. Getting content on and off is very easy via the store or USB. The only negatives so far: I'm still waiting on the files I sent to free.kindle.com yesterday afternoon and my first book from the store had three typos. They were all of the same variety: two words run together. It was odd since a spellchecker should have caught all of them.

[gregr209]

I got my Kindle yesterday and have only played with it for a few hours. So far I love it. However the things I don't like about it are -

The cover is horrible!!!!!!!
When I hand it to people they push buttons they shouldn't
The 'back' button sucks

The things I love -

The screen is awesome!!!!!!
Reading in bed is easy and a joy
Navigation is easy thanks to the 'little wheel'
Buying books is sooooo easy...in fact to easy :-)
Sample chapters are awesome!!!!!! In fact I spent my entire commute this morning reading sample chapters

Just my 2 cents so far!

Greg

[kacir]

Originally Posted by CCDMan

You simply cannot compare a 5 minute song to a book. The very idea is laughable.

Think about it.
Many people listen to that 5 minute song many hundred times. You do not usually re-read most of books.

Which medium gives you more hours of enjoyment?
One book that takes 10 hours to read.
or a 2 minute song that you listen to at least three hundred times?

I know that it usually takes longer time to write a book than to make a recording (especially nowadays), but again think about those countless hours the musician has to spend learning to play a guitar ...

[CCDMan]

Think about it.
Many people listen to that 5 minute song many hundred times. You do not usually re-read most of books.
Which medium gives you more hours of enjoyment?

The point was that they are apples and oranges and cannot be compared with any accuracy. Both digital downloads, but that is where the similarity ends.

[CCDMan]

The cover is horrible!!!!!!!

Agreed! They need to look at the Sony.

When I hand it to people they push buttons they shouldn't

I would be afraid they would not give it back! <g>

The 'back' button sucks

Yeah, why do we even need one?

The screen is awesome!!!!!!
Reading in bed is easy and a joy
Navigation is easy thanks to the 'little wheel'
Buying books is sooooo easy...in fact too easy :-)

Agree of all of the above. As far as those folks that don't own one and say they hate it anyway........ I hope you enjoy reading on paper. As for me, I ain't ever going back to paper if I can avoid it and I am getting damn tired of listening to opinions about a device from all manner of jerks who have never tried one!

Now if you will excuse me, I have a book to read (actually, about 10) <g>

[azog]

Originally Posted by CCDMan

Yeah, why do we even need one?

The quote is in reference to the BACK button; apparently the forum won't allow me to attribute multiple quotes.

In any event, I wondered about that BACK button, too, but quickly learned to use it. When I look up a word in the dictionary, the BACK button brings me back to where I was reading. There are other uses for the button as well, but that is a primary thing for me. Otherwise you'd need to set a bookmark, and then go back to the bookmark, which is pretty tedious.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by CCDMan

You must mean music. You sure can't mean books. You simply cannot compare a 5 minute song to a book. The very idea is laughable.

No. I don't mean books. I mean eBooks.

Originally Posted by CCDMan

Which market? Fair market price in the legitimate market is set by that market and that has been set by the market for DRM BOOKS (mostly Sony and Amazon at this point).

Which libraries offer for free today. Fair market value is set.

[Alisa]

The library has set the price of "free" (or rather a small cut of your tax dollars) to be able to read the book with less convenience. Sometimes it's a little less convenient. You have to go to the library during their hours, find the book, check it out, bring it back, etc. Sometimes there's a lot less convenience. It may be checked out. There may be a list. If it's popular you may have to wait for months. The fair market price for the book you want on demand is a different matter.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by Alisa

The library has set the price of "free" (or rather a small cut of your tax dollars) to be able to read the book with less convenience. Sometimes it's a little less convenient. You have to go to the library during their hours, find the book, check it out, bring it back, etc. Sometimes there's a lot less convenience. It may be checked out. There may be a list. If it's popular you may have to wait for months. The fair market price for the book you want on demand is a different matter.

A paper book, by its nature as a physical object, is scarce.

An eBook, by its nature as a logical object, is not scarce. The number of eBooks can grow to meet checkout demand for no cost. So any "wait for availability" is something that is artificially imposed by someone.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

A paper book, by its nature as a physical object, is scarce.

An eBook, by its nature as a logical object, is not scarce. The number of eBooks can grow to meet checkout demand for no cost. So any "wait for availability" is something that is artificially imposed by someone.

Paper books are not "by nature" scarce. In fact they're often over produced. The reason they may be scarce at the library is that the "free" library book is actually paid for by tax dollars which are scarce. They can't buy enough copies to give everyone access on demand. There are usually way more copies in existence that the library could have if they had the money for it.

Library ebooks are "scarce" based on how many simultaneous checkouts the library has authorized. So yes it is artificially created. If libraries could offer unlimited downloads for "free" then ebook publishers would either raise the prices astronomically or not release the ebooks.

[sfernald]

I love my Kindle so far. I think I love the access to content most. Every night when my wife would watch tv I would sit with my laptop and surf the web. Now I use my kindle instead. It gives me access to the same tech articles I like, and in addition, I now find I read many other types of content, such as the New York Times, the Atlantic Monthly, Salon and of course whatever novel or short story compilation I may be working on. I've noticed the quality of the content I'm consuming on the Kindle is much higher than I consume just from the web. The Kindle does a great job of supporting the different types of writing I like. Also, it is more portable and easy to hold than my laptop. And of course the screen is much better for intensive reading sessions. To improve it, I think they should make it smaller like the PRS505 and more attractive. I prefer quality metal to plastic any day. The big thing though is the display. They need to keep improving that display. Make it larger, with more contrast (most important), and higher DPI and of course an even faster refresh. I think new Kindle releases should follow the display technology. When a new display comes out that is markedly better than the last, then by all means, release another improved version of the Kindle please. I can always sell my old one on ebay.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by Alisa

Paper books are not "by nature" scarce.

All physical objects are scarce by nature.

Originally Posted by Alisa

Library ebooks are "scarce" based on how many simultaneous checkouts the library has authorized. So yes it is artificially created. If libraries could offer unlimited downloads for "free" then ebook publishers would either raise the prices astronomically or not release the ebooks.

Since you agree that the scarcity of eBooks is artificial, how do you justify paying $10 for something that costs nothing to duplicate?

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by Alisa

Paper books are not "by nature" scarce. In fact they're often over produced. The reason they may be scarce at the library is that the "free" library book is actually paid for by tax dollars which are scarce. They can't buy enough copies to give everyone access on demand. There are usually way more copies in existence that the library could have if they had the money for it.

Library ebooks are "scarce" based on how many simultaneous checkouts the library has authorized. So yes it is artificially created. If libraries could offer unlimited downloads for "free" then ebook publishers would either raise the prices astronomically or not release the ebooks.

He meant scarce as in a finite supply, or "if I have this copy, then you don't". neither of which apply to digital media such as mp3 or ebooks..