Backing up K3 content to a hard drive

nic_x · 01-05-2011, 09:48 AM

Hi all,

I've been browsing the forums here for several weeks as I've been researching the purchase of a Kindle. I have learned a lot here--thank you to all who contribute!

One of my concerns with the purchase is having a way to back up my Kindle books to my Mac's hard drive, similar to the way I back up all my music (I use iTunes, but have an automatic backup of all the music files on my hard drive.) I want to be certain I have my own backup of each book I purchase that is separate from what's on Amazon's server.

I've purchased a few Kindle books and downloaded the Kindle for Mac application. I did see that when I open a book there, it is saved in the Documents folder of my Mac as a separate file with an .azm file name. When I click on one of those .azm files, it automatically opens the book using the Kindle for Mac application.

If I create a new folder and move all those books to it, and back it up each night, is this all I need? Is there anything else you'd recommend? Do I need to convert these .azm files to some other format to save them long-term and have access to them?

I am a multipublished fiction author as well as an avid reader, so it's essential that I keep a lot of the fiction I purchase (yes, I read for pleasure, but these books are essentially work materials for me!) If I were to lose these books--let's say that in fifteen years Amazon goes belly up or gets acquired or what have you--I would likely have to repurchase a good number of them, so that's why it's essential I have some type of backup. I realize it's unlikely to happen, but it's a big enough financial risk for me that I must consider it.

Thoughts? Input is greatly appreciated. I love the idea of saving space in my house (which is overrun with books!) but can't risk losing books I purchase, either. I want to purchase a Kindle, but this is the one thing that's holding back my decision.

nic_x

HarryT · 01-05-2011, 09:54 AM

Those files are indeed the book files, but they have DRM - ie they are encrypted so that they will only run on your Mac and on no other device. In order to use them on a different device you'd need to remove the DRM, which, depending what country you live in, may or may not be legal to do.

nic_x · 01-05-2011, 10:21 AM

Thank you, Harry. My big concern is that, should Amazon disappear in the future, I still have my own copies of files and access to all my books. On my Mac is fine (though ideally, if Amazon went away, I'd hopefully have another device besides my computer on which I could read the books, though that obviously doesn't work for Kindle now.)

I don't want to make the investment in a Kindle and book collection if there's a risk it might disappear without my having access to it, even if that were to happen 10-20 years from now. Again, I do know it's unlikely, given Amazon's profitability and diversified sales, but I have to protect my own business, too

FF2 · 01-05-2011, 11:23 AM

I hope this is not considered thread-jacking but would like to follow up on the idea that the books I (or the generic "one") downloads to kindle-4-pc (or mac or ...)

Does each version of kindle-4-pc encode books differently on different pc's? In other workds I was using kindle-4-pc on my desktop win-vista machine. It's c:drive just had an untimely death and it in being serviced. So I installed k-4-pc on my netbook. I have been downloading to it for the last week. Are the "ebooks" differently coded or linked to each specific pc or can I use the books downloaded on this netbook on my desktop when it recovers? Or will I have to download again each book to be attached/associated/linked/married/tied" back to the desktop?

I guess another way of asking is when FF2 (my id here) downloads books from Amazon, are they coded for FF2 so that no matter which pc (netbook, laptop, desktop) I download to, gets the same coded version or is each copy of that same book coded separately for each individual machine?

Skipping the idea of stripping the drm for the moment - which would make them more universal.

Or should I create a new thread to discuss this idea?

HarryT · 01-05-2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FF2

Does each version of kindle-4-pc encode books differently on different pc's? In other workds I was using kindle-4-pc on my desktop win-vista machine. It's c:drive just had an untimely death and it in being serviced. So I installed k-4-pc on my netbook. I have been downloading to it for the last week. Are the "ebooks" differently coded or linked to each specific pc or can I use the books downloaded on this netbook on my desktop when it recovers? Or will I have to download again each book to be attached/associated/linked/married/tied" back to the desktop?

Each book is encoded for a specific device. You have to download the book separately for each device. That includes each separate installation of Kindle for PC, as well as each separate Kindle.

TheKindleWorm · 01-05-2011, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FF2

I hope this is not considered thread-jacking but would like to follow up on the idea that the books I (or the generic "one") downloads to kindle-4-pc (or mac or ...)

Does each version of kindle-4-pc encode books differently on different pc's? In other workds I was using kindle-4-pc on my desktop win-vista machine. It's c:drive just had an untimely death and it in being serviced. So I installed k-4-pc on my netbook. I have been downloading to it for the last week. Are the "ebooks" differently coded or linked to each specific pc or can I use the books downloaded on this netbook on my desktop when it recovers? Or will I have to download again each book to be attached/associated/linked/married/tied" back to the desktop?

I guess another way of asking is when FF2 (my id here) downloads books from Amazon, are they coded for FF2 so that no matter which pc (netbook, laptop, desktop) I download to, gets the same coded version or is each copy of that same book coded separately for each individual machine?

Skipping the idea of stripping the drm for the moment - which would make them more universal.

Or should I create a new thread to discuss this idea?

It is my understanding that each separate "device" you have listed in your Manage Your Kindle account whether that is k4PC, Kindle, Ipod etc ends up with differently encoded books.

So if you had K4PC on two machines I'm assuming you wouldn't be able to read books downloaded to one of those on the other because they are classed as separate devices.

TheKindleWorm · 01-05-2011, 11:38 AM

Sorry - Harry and I mut have posted almost at the same time!

nic_x · 01-05-2011, 11:44 AM

So...I'm not too techie, please forgive me...does this mean that if I buy a Kindle, and keep a copy of the books in my Mac's documents file as a backup, I wouldn't be able to use those backup files on any device but THAT particular Mac should Amazon stop supporting the Kindle/go out of business?

DiapDealer · 01-05-2011, 11:49 AM

Quote:

So...I'm not too techie, please forgive me...does this mean that if I buy a Kindle, and keep a copy of the books in my Mac's documents file as a backup, I wouldn't be able to use those backup files on any device but THAT particular Mac should Amazon stop supporting the Kindle/go out of business?

Your assumption is correct. Without bringing DRM removal into the equation:
The ebook you "back-up" is only ever readable on the device it was downloaded for.

K4PC/Mac files are encrypted using (as one element) Volume serial numbers. If you get a new computer/harddrive/change your username, these files are useless (unless you re-download them of course).

HarryT · 01-05-2011, 11:54 AM

However, should you wish to do so, removing the DRM is extremely easy. Once you've removed the DRM, you can then read the book on any device. We can't give detailed assistance with DRM-removal here, but Google for "Apprentice Alf" and you'll get all the information you need.

Please note, though, that it may be illegal to do this in the United States (opinions vary, and no case has come to court to set a precedent).

nic_x · 01-05-2011, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Your assumption is correct.

Ouch. If I switched to a new Mac (which happens every few years) and Amazon went under, I'd be toast. No access.

I was hoping that the books I purchase would be mine in the same sense that music I buy on iTunes is mine, stored on my computer, for me to use whenever needed. I back it up each night automatically, and if I upgrade computers, I can take it with me to that computer.

But it seems that the books I'd buy would really belong to Amazon, and my access would be limited. They'd determine whether I could move those books to a new computer; it wouldn't be in my control. More like I'd be renting a book with an undetermined return date than actually owning it. Is that accurate? If so, I'm stunned it's not discussed more. I had to search online for quite awhile before I found out ANY information about backing up Kindle files at all, other than mentions of using Amazon's "Manage Your Kindle" page.

I hate to say it--because I'm dying to make my future book purchases all digital, as I have done with music purchases--but I think this system could be a deal-killer for me on moving to Kindle.

I'm all for copyright protection (I'm an author, after all), but once someone purchases a book, that individual should be able to access it and read it at any time.

HarryT · 01-05-2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nic_x

I'm all for copyright protection (I'm an author, after all), but once someone purchases a book, that individual should be able to access it and read it at any time.

That's exactly why many of us choose to remove the DRM from a book as soon as we buy it, to ensure that we will have continued access to it.

DiapDealer · 01-05-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

But it seems that the books I'd buy would really belong to Amazon, and my access would be limited. They'd determine whether I could move those books to a new computer; it wouldn't be in my control. More like I'd be renting a book with an undetermined return date than actually owning it. Is that accurate?

Yes that's accurate... but it's accurate for ebooks purchased from Amazon, Sony or B&N as well. Almost all major ebook sellers are selling you a license to borrow -- for the purpose of reading.

FF2 · 01-05-2011, 12:15 PM

Oh, if k-4-pc uses VolumeSerial# or similar, then the backups of my-documents to an external drive from that dying c:drive may not work when it is returned. Hmm I will definitely be experimenting when I get it back. And as the OP has postulated, I will definitely be examining the backup options - specifically removing the impediment to backups. At this point, if I want Book-X on my real k3, my netbook, my desktop and my work computer and I want the security of backups, each version of Book=X would need to be backed up separately. Oh, well, it keeps the usb-drive manufacturers happy.

nic_x · 01-05-2011, 12:37 PM

Thank you, everyone. This is VERY different than buying music on iTunes, which is not what I expected when I first started researching eReaders. I thought my big decision would be which eReader to buy...now it's whether to get one at all, given that I could lose everything I purchase through no fault of my own. Granted, a fire could take out my house and I'd lose all my books, but at least insurance would cover some of the replacement. No so if Amazon went under.

I feel VERY strongly that electronic books should be treated the same way as a paper book for copyright purposes (in other words, ensuring that everyone is paid, which means great stories continue to be told.)

But I'd feel wrong about stripping DRM, if I could even figure it out (after reading Apprentice Alf, I doubt I can.) Guess my simple, "How do I back up for my own future use?" question was far more complex than I anticipated. Very disappointing. I'd truly been hoping my future book purchases would be more like my music purchases have been the last few years since iTunes launched, moving my collection from physical to digital.

01-05-2011, 09:48 AM	#1
nic_x Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jan 2011 Device: none	Backing up K3 content to a hard drive Hi all, I've been browsing the forums here for several weeks as I've been researching the purchase of a Kindle. I have learned a lot here--thank you to all who contribute! One of my concerns with the purchase is having a way to back up my Kindle books to my Mac's hard drive, similar to the way I back up all my music (I use iTunes, but have an automatic backup of all the music files on my hard drive.) I want to be certain I have my own backup of each book I purchase that is separate from what's on Amazon's server. I've purchased a few Kindle books and downloaded the Kindle for Mac application. I did see that when I open a book there, it is saved in the Documents folder of my Mac as a separate file with an .azm file name. When I click on one of those .azm files, it automatically opens the book using the Kindle for Mac application. If I create a new folder and move all those books to it, and back it up each night, is this all I need? Is there anything else you'd recommend? Do I need to convert these .azm files to some other format to save them long-term and have access to them? I am a multipublished fiction author as well as an avid reader, so it's essential that I keep a lot of the fiction I purchase (yes, I read for pleasure, but these books are essentially work materials for me!) If I were to lose these books--let's say that in fifteen years Amazon goes belly up or gets acquired or what have you--I would likely have to repurchase a good number of them, so that's why it's essential I have some type of backup. I realize it's unlikely to happen, but it's a big enough financial risk for me that I must consider it. Thoughts? Input is greatly appreciated. I love the idea of saving space in my house (which is overrun with books!) but can't risk losing books I purchase, either. I want to purchase a Kindle, but this is the one thing that's holding back my decision. nic_x

01-05-2011, 11:23 AM	#4
FF2 Wizard Posts: 1,105 Karma: 1025784 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: WiFi Kindle3	I hope this is not considered thread-jacking but would like to follow up on the idea that the books I (or the generic "one") downloads to kindle-4-pc (or mac or ...) Does each version of kindle-4-pc encode books differently on different pc's? In other workds I was using kindle-4-pc on my desktop win-vista machine. It's c:drive just had an untimely death and it in being serviced. So I installed k-4-pc on my netbook. I have been downloading to it for the last week. Are the "ebooks" differently coded or linked to each specific pc or can I use the books downloaded on this netbook on my desktop when it recovers? Or will I have to download again each book to be attached/associated/linked/married/tied" back to the desktop? I guess another way of asking is when FF2 (my id here) downloads books from Amazon, are they coded for FF2 so that no matter which pc (netbook, laptop, desktop) I download to, gets the same coded version or is each copy of that same book coded separately for each individual machine? Skipping the idea of stripping the drm for the moment - which would make them more universal. Or should I create a new thread to discuss this idea? Last edited by FF2; 01-05-2011 at 11:26 AM.

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01-05-2011, 09:54 AM	#2
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Those files are indeed the book files, but they have DRM - ie they are encrypted so that they will only run on your Mac and on no other device. In order to use them on a different device you'd need to remove the DRM, which, depending what country you live in, may or may not be legal to do.

01-05-2011, 10:21 AM	#3
nic_x Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jan 2011 Device: none	Thank you, Harry. My big concern is that, should Amazon disappear in the future, I still have my own copies of files and access to all my books. On my Mac is fine (though ideally, if Amazon went away, I'd hopefully have another device besides my computer on which I could read the books, though that obviously doesn't work for Kindle now.) I don't want to make the investment in a Kindle and book collection if there's a risk it might disappear without my having access to it, even if that were to happen 10-20 years from now. Again, I do know it's unlikely, given Amazon's profitability and diversified sales, but I have to protect my own business, too

01-05-2011, 11:38 AM	#7
TheKindleWorm Guru Posts: 860 Karma: 177868 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: East Anglia UK Device: Kindle 3G, iPhone 3G, iPod 4G, PB 360, Sony 600 sold, Kindle 2i sold	Sorry - Harry and I mut have posted almost at the same time!

01-05-2011, 11:44 AM	#8
nic_x Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jan 2011 Device: none	So...I'm not too techie, please forgive me...does this mean that if I buy a Kindle, and keep a copy of the books in my Mac's documents file as a backup, I wouldn't be able to use those backup files on any device but THAT particular Mac should Amazon stop supporting the Kindle/go out of business?

01-05-2011, 11:54 AM	#10
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	However, should you wish to do so, removing the DRM is extremely easy. Once you've removed the DRM, you can then read the book on any device. We can't give detailed assistance with DRM-removal here, but Google for "Apprentice Alf" and you'll get all the information you need. Please note, though, that it may be illegal to do this in the United States (opinions vary, and no case has come to court to set a precedent).

01-05-2011, 12:15 PM	#14
FF2 Wizard Posts: 1,105 Karma: 1025784 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: WiFi Kindle3	Oh, if k-4-pc uses VolumeSerial# or similar, then the backups of my-documents to an external drive from that dying c:drive may not work when it is returned. Hmm I will definitely be experimenting when I get it back. And as the OP has postulated, I will definitely be examining the backup options - specifically removing the impediment to backups. At this point, if I want Book-X on my real k3, my netbook, my desktop and my work computer and I want the security of backups, each version of Book=X would need to be backed up separately. Oh, well, it keeps the usb-drive manufacturers happy.

01-05-2011, 12:37 PM	#15
nic_x Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jan 2011 Device: none	Thank you, everyone. This is VERY different than buying music on iTunes, which is not what I expected when I first started researching eReaders. I thought my big decision would be which eReader to buy...now it's whether to get one at all, given that I could lose everything I purchase through no fault of my own. Granted, a fire could take out my house and I'd lose all my books, but at least insurance would cover some of the replacement. No so if Amazon went under. I feel VERY strongly that electronic books should be treated the same way as a paper book for copyright purposes (in other words, ensuring that everyone is paid, which means great stories continue to be told.) But I'd feel wrong about stripping DRM, if I could even figure it out (after reading Apprentice Alf, I doubt I can.) Guess my simple, "How do I back up for my own future use?" question was far more complex than I anticipated. Very disappointing. I'd truly been hoping my future book purchases would be more like my music purchases have been the last few years since iTunes launched, moving my collection from physical to digital.

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