Mysterious font information in AZW3 file

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by salty-horse

Since the ePub and AZW3 have the same commented fonts, I'm thinking maybe they couldn't include them in the ebooks, maybe due to rights issues...?

That is likely. Also adding them would bloat the size of the book and is unnecessary since most people prefer to choose their own reading font anyway.

Originally Posted by salty-horse

Maybe the monospace font is a later addition, when they noticed a problem with differentiating the computer text with regular text (which sometimes appear together in the same line). So they added the monospace style to the KFX and the ePub, but not to the AZW3...? Does Amazon's publishing system lets you edit these two formats separately?

There is no way that the publisher could do that. All of the formats are created at the same time from the same source file. Amazon needs the content of each Kindle format to be synchronized with the others so that things like user annotations will work across devices that use different formats.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Here is the CSS from the ePub version with a few changes.

After seeing Jon's version of the original CSS, I believe that this book fell afoul of a feature of Amazon's publishing process intended to prevent publishers from overriding the customer's font choice. It looks like they put font-family properties in the style definitions of all of the various paragraph types used in the book. That is against Amazon's rules.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jhowell

After seeing Jon's version of the original CSS, I believe that this book fell afoul of a feature of Amazon's publishing process intended to prevent publishers from overriding the customer's font choice. It looks like they put font-family properties in the style definitions of all of the various paragraph types used in the book. That is against Amazon's rules.

font-family: using sans-serif and.or monospace should not stripped out. It's using the default fonts on the Kindle. There are no embedded fonts. The comments just say what fonts were used in the pBook edition and where.

That's my thinking and I could be wrong here.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by salty-horse

The book is Planetfall by Emma Newman, ASIN B00SI0B65W
A physical copy can be borrowed on the Internet Archive.

Just came here to say; excellent book, excellent series. That is all.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by jhowell

That is likely. Also adding them would bloat the size of the book and is unnecessary since most people prefer to choose their own reading font anyway.

Does anyone know if the Sabon declaration works? ARE there any fonts in the ePUB, at all? Or are there none?

There is no way that the publisher could do that. All of the formats are created at the same time from the same source file. Amazon needs the content of each Kindle format to be synchronized with the others so that things like user annotations will work across devices that use different formats.

Yes, what he says. You create one "master" file, with media queries to try to stave off problems and hope for the best.

After seeing Jon's version of the original CSS, I believe that this book fell afoul of a feature of Amazon's publishing process intended to prevent publishers from overriding the customer's font choice. It looks like they put font-family properties in the style definitions of all of the various paragraph types used in the book. That is against Amazon's rules.

Yes, I agree. They saw all the fonts being called on major text portions and simply...either ripped out the FONT itself, thereby rendering it moot--hell, for all we know, they put in the monospace code (and no, I'm not shocked that it doesn't work).

There's also the fact that many, MANY print designers who do INDD-ePUB-export files don't realize that Adobe fonts won't transport. I mean, you can put them "into" a file, more or less, but the moment that file is ePUBchecked, you're dead in the water. I wonder if it's as simple as, they ripped out the fonts? The book designer, that is?

I've seen worse. It's not great, mind you, but heavens knows, I've seen worse. I recently saw a Berkeley that had FORCED ragged-right justification and lemme tell ya, my inability to override it, for the entire novel, torqued my biscuits pretty good. And NO, I won't reformat the damn books I'm going to read. I do this for a living; I don't want to have to deal with it for my recreation. I simply don't.

Hitch

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I've seen worse. It's not great, mind you, but heavens knows, I've seen worse. I recently saw a Berkeley that had FORCED ragged-right justification and lemme tell ya, my inability to override it, for the entire novel, torqued my biscuits pretty good. And NO, I won't reformat the damn books I'm going to read. I do this for a living; I don't want to have to deal with it for my recreation. I simply don't.

Hitch

I get the impression that you feel towards forced left justification (AKA ragged right) much the same as I feel towards forced full justification which lacks micro-justifaction. A plague upon both their houses!

[salty-horse]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Take the KF8, swap the CSS, and then convert to ePub. You'll have a better ePub.

Better how? The KFX file mangles all the style names - e.g., the message text class is just some code that doesn't describe what it's representing. It looks like the AZW3 (and ePub, which I don't have access to) with the commented font names are closer to the "publisher-intended" version.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

font-family: using sans-serif and.or monospace should not stripped out. It's using the default fonts on the Kindle. There are no embedded fonts.

It becomes a problem when font-family is set in all of the paragraph styles so that it covers the entire content of the book, not just for select portions of the text that need to stand out.

It doesn't matter that it is calling for a built in font. Using font-family:serif for most of the book will select a built-in serif font, but that may not be the particular font that the person reading the book wants. It is the same as if the publisher insisted on setting font-family:Baskerville and I wanted to read using Georgia instead.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by jhowell

It becomes a problem when font-family is set in all of the paragraph styles so that it covers the entire content of the book, not just for select portions of the text that need to stand out.

It doesn't matter that it is calling for a built in font. Using font-family:serif for most of the book will select a built-in serif font, but that may not be the particular font that the person reading the book wants. It is the same as if the publisher insisted on setting font-family:Baskerville and I wanted to read using Georgia instead.

Yes, and on the "body" tag, too. They get VERY vexed 'bout that one!

Hitch

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Does anyone know if the Sabon declaration works? ARE there any fonts in the ePUB, at all? Or are there none?

I don't know about the EPUB, but there are some embedded fonts present in the Kindle version of the book. These are the ones normally used on the boilerplate page that Penguin adds to the end of their books: "What’s next on your reading list? Discover your next great read!"

Although the fonts used on that page are still present in the KF8 version of the book the corresponding font-family properties needed to call them out have been removed, just like they were in the rest of the book. They are present and working in the KFX version of the book.

It looks like whatever part of Amazon's publishing workflow removed font-family from that book (1) it did it in a very heavy handed fashion and (2) it did it only for KF8 format. This is the first book I have seen that was neutered in this way. I don't know whether that is something recent or if it has always worked that way.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Does anyone know if the Sabon declaration works? ARE there any fonts in the ePUB, at all? Or are there none?

Only the Penguin embedded fonts for that annoying advert page.. The rest is sans-serif and monospace with the name of the font used in the pBook as a comment.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by salty-horse

Better how? The KFX file mangles all the style names - e.g., the message text class is just some code that doesn't describe what it's representing. It looks like the AZW3 (and ePub, which I don't have access to) with the commented font names are closer to the "publisher-intended" version.

You are losing out on the sans-serif and monospace fonts. The code for them does not exist in the KF8. But the code exists in the ePub and can exist in the KF8 if you use the CSS I posted.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jhowell

It becomes a problem when font-family is set in all of the paragraph styles so that it covers the entire content of the book, not just for select portions of the text that need to stand out.

It doesn't matter that it is calling for a built in font. Using font-family:serif for most of the book will select a built-in serif font, but that may not be the particular font that the person reading the book wants. It is the same as if the publisher insisted on setting font-family:Baskerville and I wanted to read using Georgia instead.

The ePub does not set a font/font style formost of the main text. That's not an issue. It's where they use sans-serif and monospace that you miss out in the KF8. The sans-serif you can lose and not be an issue. But the monospace is used for messages.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I don't know about the EPUB, but there are some embedded fonts present in the Kindle version of the book. These are the ones normally used on the boilerplate page that Penguin adds to the end of their books: "What’s next on your reading list? Discover your next great read!"

Although the fonts used on that page are still present in the KF8 version of the book the corresponding font-family properties needed to call them out have been removed, just like they were in the rest of the book. They are present and working in the KFX version of the book.

It looks like whatever part of Amazon's publishing workflow removed font-family from that book (1) it did it in a very heavy handed fashion and (2) it did it only for KF8 format. This is the first book I have seen that was neutered in this way. I don't know whether that is something recent or if it has always worked that way.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

No embedded fonts in the ePub. The best we get is sans-serif and monospace with the name of the font as a comment.

Okay, so we have part of the answer--the book designer/formatter used fonts that s/he thought were available to him/her and lo and behold, KDP ripped them right the hell out. And thus, the "message" font (the monospace) didn't work.

What I'm a bit confuddled about--and I'm under the weather today, so not inclined to go back and re-read everything--is why a fallback of monospace wouldn't work for that, though.

Tomorrow. Not my normal perky self today. Something I've eaten is patently and most decidedly not agreeing with me.

Hitch

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Would it be OK to post the CSS from the ePub version or would that not be allowed?

Of course it's allowed. You can do whatever you want with the CSS.

What's going to happen next, people considering a Right-Click > "View Source" as hacking?

Originally Posted by jhowell

There is no way that the publisher could do that. All of the formats are created at the same time from the same source file. Amazon needs the content of each Kindle format to be synchronized with the others so that things like user annotations will work across devices that use different formats.

Hmmm, but what if they used @media in their files to direct slightly different CSS for each Amazon version.

Doesn't Amazon interpret the @media, then generate new CSS per each (MOBI + KF8 + KFX)? Or does it still carry the same CSS over to all 3 versions?

Originally Posted by jhowell

It looks like whatever part of Amazon's publishing workflow removed font-family from that book (1) it did it in a very heavy handed fashion and (2) it did it only for KF8 format. This is the first book I have seen that was neutered in this way. I don't know whether that is something recent or if it has always worked that way.

Good detective work.

[salty-horse]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You are losing out on the sans-serif and monospace fonts. The code for them does not exist in the KF8. But the code exists in the ePub and can exist in the KF8 if you use the CSS I posted.

I may be confused about what "KF8" is. I only know of the KFX bundle, and AZW3. Which one is considered KF8?

What do you mean by "monospace font"? Just the font-family: monospace style? I don't care about that, since I replace these with a computery non-monospaced font.