KF8 on Fire HD6 - Justification & Font Issues

[cybmole]

Another hyphenated book. A Kindle first giveaway for March. The Gemini effect

[DreamWriter]

Originally Posted by cybmole

Another hyphenated book. A Kindle first giveaway for March. The Gemini effect

Thanks, cybmole! I see both auto-hyphenation and darker text in that book on my Fire HD6, just as I do in my own e-books since uploading new versions of previously published titles in February/March.

The interesting thing about The Gemini Effect is that it was published by 47North, an Amazon imprint. Edited to add: I also noticed that the HTML Table of Contents is there, but it doesn't have a logical TOC.

In the last week, I found several other indie books published through KDP that have the same issues with hyphens and darker main text. I know that one author uploads MS Word files, and the other uploads epub/mobi. Those were originally published months ago, although the authors may have made changes recently and reuploaded.

[cybmole]

it seems you have identified the general area now, if not the actual cause - it is not an author action, but is something applied at publishing stage to some, not all ? newly published stuff, and only shows on some devices ( I find that last bit more puzzling, as maintaining sending different versions to different devices seems a huge overhead.).
please do keep us updated as & when you get any more sense out of amazon.

[Notjohn]

Originally Posted by cybmole

Another hyphenated book. A Kindle first giveaway for March. The Gemini effect

Thanks for the pointer. I downloaded it to my iPhone 4 and am looking at it in portrait mode. Early on, I see this hyphenation:

Pa-
rade

Next I see a hyphenated word in Cyrillic....

Some are pretty good, such as:

show-
room

but that appears to be random.

Funnily enough, my iPhone seems to be set for the tan (beige?) background, with the result that I see that the publisher is using an image to obtain a three-bullet break between scenes.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by cybmole

it seems you have identified the general area now, if not the actual cause - it is not an author action, but is something applied at publishing stage to some, not all ? newly published stuff, and only shows on some devices ( I find that last bit more puzzling, as maintaining sending different versions to different devices seems a huge overhead.).
please do keep us updated as & when you get any more sense out of amazon.

Cyb:

Seriously, I expect it's the device firmware/software that's the issue, not varying versions, other than the ubiquitous KF7,KF8.

And yes, we know factually that changes (of several kinds, like the SRL) are made in the PW (Publishing Workflow). That's what happens after an author/publisher hits "save and publish" and before the book goes on sale.

Hitch

[cybmole]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Cyb:

Seriously, I expect it's the device firmware/software that's the issue, not varying versions, other than the ubiquitous KF7,KF8.

And yes, we know factually that changes (of several kinds, like the SRL) are made in the PW (Publishing Workflow). That's what happens after an author/publisher hits "save and publish" and before the book goes on sale.

Hitch

but if it were device software then I'd expect all my amazon books to start self-hyphenating, not only the 4? that have been collectively identified to date in this thread?
on the confirmed list we have only tube riders, last mulligan, secret knowledge, gemini effect
I have 2 of those + the free sample of mulligan & can see nothing in the book code or CSS to account for this ( assuming that the calibre AZW editor uncompilies & gives a fair view of what is actually in there. )

and for amazon to say to the OP "yeah, we updated the device software & that's why", not " it must be something strange in your css "

OTOH , supporting your hypothesis is the fact that none of them hyphenate in Kindle for PC. Kindle Fire O/S did upgrade round about when this began, but I've seen nothing specific to say reader code updated also.

the mystery is still out there

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by cybmole

but if it were device software then I'd expect all my amazon books to start self-hyphenating, not only the 4? that have been collectively identified to date in this thread?
on the confirmed list we have only tube riders, last mulligan, secret knowledge, gemini effect
I have 2 of those + the free sample of mulligan & can see nothing in the book code or CSS to account for this ( assuming that the calibre AZW editor uncompilies & gives a fair view of what is actually in there. )

and for amazon to say to the OP "yeah, we updated the device software & that's why", not " it must be something strange in your css "

OTOH , supporting your hypothesis is the fact that none of them hyphenate in Kindle for PC. Kindle Fire O/S did upgrade round about when this began, but I've seen nothing specific to say reader code updated also.

the mystery is still out there

Cyb:

Why do you think that a software alteration has to be across all the devices? Why not test one specific device, if you're thinking about implementing such a large change? I know, for example, that the Voyage handles images quite differently than all the other devices. That's device-specific. That means it has something different than the PPW.

Why not something similar for the Fire 6" O/S?

Hitch

[cybmole]

ok, I'll buy your "some devices" rollout argument, but why are only a few books affected?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by cybmole

ok, I'll buy your "some devices" rollout argument, but why are only a few books affected?

If I had to make a wild guess, I'd say newly-converted books. I've seen something like this before--not consistently, but enough--where a book that worked perfectly in, say, 2012, won't convert correctly now in 2015, for whatever reason. Because this changed, or that changed, or Amazon added/subtracted something. (Like the SRL debacle, in Dec. 2011; books that were uploading in November '11 had SRL's set wherever we wanted. Books uploaded in Dec. '11--> couldn't be set to the location we wanted--even the same book files.).

That's my best guesstimate. Two events--files that are being newly uploaded or updated, plus a some-devices soft launch. I could be *completely* and totally wrong, of course, but this feels familiar to me.

Hitch

[Notjohn]

Fascinating. The Gemini Effect enthusiastically hyphenates on my iPhone 4, but does not hyphenate at all on Kindle for PC, even when I narrow the "pages" until they have wide gaps between the words. (I haven't updated K4PC for months, perhaps a year or more.)

[cybmole]

nothing hyphenates in K for PC, i don't think it supports it at all.

[DreamWriter]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

Fascinating. The Gemini Effect enthusiastically hyphenates on my iPhone 4, but does not hyphenate at all on Kindle for PC, even when I narrow the "pages" until they have wide gaps between the words. (I haven't updated K4PC for months, perhaps a year or more.)

Originally Posted by cybmole

nothing hyphenates in K for PC, i don't think it supports it at all.

As far as I know, the affected e-books display auto-hyphenation only on the Fire HD6, Fire HDX 8.9, and Fire HD7 (2013). This does not show up in the KDP online previewer, although I do see it there for the iPhone.

The same e-books do not have auto-hyphenation on Fire HD7 (2012), Voyage, Paperwhite 1, Kindle for Android App, Kindle for iOS, and Kindle for PC.

* * *

I may be coming close to figuring out what's causing this, although I suspect the solution is in KDP's hands. This is what I've observed...

Remember, all four of my e-books have had auto-hyphenation on the Fire HD6 in post-February 14 uploads. There were no problems with these e-books prior to February. I had uploaded a file on 1-30-15 for one of my books, Lotto: Blood Money. I noticed a few interesting things about that version (which was still on my Fire last week since I hadn't requested that Kindle CS "push" a newer version yet).

Prior to February, when there was no body font specified, on Fire HD6 the main text of my e-books would default to an unknown serif font unlike any other on the device's font menu and there was no auto-hyphenation. This was evident in both purchased e-books and when the Kindlegen-created mobi was sideloaded to the Fire HD6. In those earlier versions, Publisher Font was a selectable menu item on the Fire HD6.

Fast forward to uploads since early/mid-February... Now, the newer Kindlegen-created mobi sideloaded to Fire HD6 still displays that unknown serif font and has no auto-hyphens, but after publication, the body font displayed is the one I last selected on the device (that unknown font, which I rather like, is gone). And there is auto-hyphenation! In addition, the Publisher Font is no longer available on the font menu. The embedded Chapter font has always displayed on the Fire HD6 and still does.

So, there is no longer a Publisher Font option on the Fire HD6 menu, but Publisher Font is available in the Kindle for Android app on my tablet. It seems that when KDP takes away the Publisher Font option, auto-hyphenation is introduced. Please read on...

Very few of my purchased e-books by other authors have the Publisher Font option on my Fire HD6, but most don't have auto-hyphenation. Perhaps those were published before recent changes at KDP?

The interesting thing is that some recently published Amazon-imprint e-books still have the Publisher Font option, no auto-hyphenation, and that mystery unknown serif font just like the one I used to see in my books on Fire HD6! Two examples are The One That Got Away, by Simon Wood (Thomas & Mercer - March 1, 2015) and Wreckage, by Emily Bleeker (Lake Union Publishing - March 1, 2015). Like my recently updated e-books, The Gemini Effect (published by 47North, currently a pre-order/Kindle First selection) does not have the Publisher Font option, does not display the unknown serif font, and does have auto-hyphenation. I have no idea how those three e-books were created and published, but perhaps the last book was published through KDP and the others weren't? (The Gemini Effect does not have a logical TOC, so I suspect it wasn't created with the same care as the others.)

As I've mentioned before, I saw these issues on my Fire HD6 with both software version 4.5.2 (December 2014) and 4.5.3 (February 24, 2015), so I don't think that has anything to do with it.

So why is there no Publisher Font option in my recently uploaded e-books, when that option WAS present in versions prior to early/mid-February? Why did the unknown serif font disappear after publication? It's still present when I sideload the Kindlegen-created mobi file to my Fire HD6 (the same file I upload to KDP), as is the Publisher Font option. Is this what introduces the auto-hyphenation?

And now I have a new problem. Although I've read that's it's been an issue for many for quite some time, I had never had this happen in the four years I've been publishing with KDP until yesterday...the e-book I'm working on now opens to the second page of the Table of Contents. It was fine until yesterday. I've tried a few things, but haven't been able to fix that yet. Any hints on how to remedy that would be appreciated.

Edit: I just sent this information to KDP's technical team investigating the auto-hyphenation issue. Maybe there's something there they can work with if they can wade through all the details.

[Hitch]

So:

Are you saying that some books on your device DO have the publisher font option, and some don't? Do you have reason to believe that the ones that don't have a Publisher font embedded? I mean....on my PPW, if a book doesn't have an embedded font, AFAIK, the "Publisher Font' option won't appear--why would it?

Am I missing something? (Entirely possible, no offense, but I skimmed that post).

Hitch

[DreamWriter]

Originally Posted by Hitch

So:

Are you saying that some books on your device DO have the publisher font option, and some don't? Do you have reason to believe that the ones that don't have a Publisher font embedded? I mean....on my PPW, if a book doesn't have an embedded font, AFAIK, the "Publisher Font' option won't appear--why would it?

Am I missing something? (Entirely possible, no offense, but I skimmed that post).

Hitch

That's correct. Some books on the Fire HD6 DO have the publisher font option.

My own four e-books DID have the Publisher Font option before auto-hyphenation and other weirdness appeared in post-January uploads. Now they don't.

I uploaded a version of one of my e-books on 1-30-15. On the Fire HD6, the purchased book had no auto-hyphenation, displayed an unknown serif font for main text that doesn't match anything in the font menu (no body font was specified in CSS), and there was an embedded font for chapter headings that displayed fine (and still does). It had the Publisher Font option. In fact, the two Amazon-imprint books I mentioned in my last post, The One That Got Away, by Simon Wood (Thomas & Mercer - March 1, 2015) and Wreckage, by Emily Bleeker (Lake Union Publishing - March 1, 2015) look the way mine used to--same unknown serif body font, no auto-hyphens, and the Publisher Font option is present.

Now, when I re-upload that same file created 1-30-15 to KDP, in the post-publication (purchased) book there IS auto-hyphenation, the main text is whatever I last used on the device (usually Bookerly or Caecilia), the embedded chapter font is fine, and there's NO Publisher Font option.

If I sideload the same mobi uploaded to KDP (created with Kindlegen) on my Fire HD6, I see the Publisher Font option, NO auto-hyphenation, and the main text is the unknown serif font (if I don't specify font in body CSS). In recent weeks, if I DO specify font in the body CSS, then the sideloaded mobi displays that font on the Fire HD6, but the purchased e-book does not.

So, what appears to be happening is KDP is stripping out the body font (which are device fonts like Caecilia or just serif) that I specify during the publication process, and the auto-hyphens are introduced as well. The embedded chapter fonts come through fine, but there is no Publisher Font option.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DreamWriter

That's correct. Some books on the Fire HD6 DO have the publisher font option.

My own four e-books DID have the Publisher Font option before auto-hyphenation and other weirdness appeared in post-January uploads. Now they don't.

I uploaded a version of one of my e-books on 1-30-15. On the Fire HD6, the purchased book had no auto-hyphenation, displayed an unknown serif font for main text that doesn't match anything in the font menu (no body font was specified in CSS), and there was an embedded font for chapter headings that displayed fine (and still does). It had the Publisher Font option. In fact, the two Amazon-imprint books I mentioned in my last post, The One That Got Away, by Simon Wood (Thomas & Mercer - March 1, 2015) and Wreckage, by Emily Bleeker (Lake Union Publishing - March 1, 2015) look the way mine used to--same unknown serif body font, no auto-hyphens, and the Publisher Font option is present.

Now, when I re-upload that same file created 1-30-15 to KDP, in the post-publication (purchased) book there IS auto-hyphenation, the main text is whatever I last used on the device (usually Bookerly or Caecilia), the embedded chapter font is fine, and there's NO Publisher Font option.

If I sideload the same mobi uploaded to KDP (created with Kindlegen) on my Fire HD6, I see the Publisher Font option, NO auto-hyphenation, and the main text is the unknown serif font (if I don't specify font in body CSS). In recent weeks, if I DO specify font in the body CSS, then the sideloaded mobi displays that font on the Fire HD6, but the purchased e-book does not.

So, what appears to be happening is KDP is stripping out the body font (which are device fonts like Caecilia or just serif) that I specify during the publication process, and the auto-hyphens are introduced as well. The embedded chapter fonts come through fine, but there is no Publisher Font option.

OK.

If you're specifying a "body font" that is already on the device, e.g., Caecilia or serif, there's really no reason for the Publisher Font option to be there, other than the Chapter head font. You have a lot of moving variables, here.

• When you talk about "body font," are you talking about an actual, real-live EMBEDDED font? For the body? Or are you talking about a "called" font, one that you merely specified as your preference for the body, e.g., Caecilia or Serif?
• AFAIK, only actual embedded fonts create the "publisher font" option. Possibly, the fact that no BODY font is specified--embedded--is now causing this option to be eliminated.
• If I understand you that the Chapter fonts are coming through "just fine," is this on all the versions? The Step-6 version AND the published version, or do you mean, it works on the Step6 version, and not on the for-sale version?
• When you change fonts on the purchased version, does the Chapter-head font remain as you set it, with an Embedded font? Is that right?
• If the answer to the last two bulleted items is yes--that the chapter-head embedded font is remaining, as specified, regardless, and the called, but NOT embedded body font is changeable, that's actually fairly good. There's really no reason for them to leave a serif or Caecilia "called" font; that's the default. Perhaps the fact that you've called a default is why it's being stripped?

IME, only embedded fonts have invoked the Publisher Font option. This has been a relatively useless option for some time, as it seems that the vast majority of users don't even know that the option to see the Publisher fonts exists. In fact, it seems that a huge chunk don't even know to change the fonts, in any instance. However...if you don't have a body font embedded, then the Publisher Font option is somewhat superfluous, IF they have managed to get incidental embedded fonts to "stick" throughout, no matter what OTHER options have changed, if you see what I mean?

Hitch