KF8 on Fire HD6 - Justification & Font Issues

[tomsem]

I cannot say the text 'looks darker' in LM than in other books. It stands to reason that the text is denser on the page because there isn't as much whitespace when hyphenation is in effect. But there's a way to check more precisely: take screen captures, load them into an image/photo editor, and compare pixels. I suppose that letters could be aligned on pixels differently in hyphenated vs non hyphenated modes, altering appearance, but I really would not expect that. I think it is just a 'perception' thing.

I will check on my HD7(2013) which I have at home. Note that there are 3 'HD7' models, 2012, 2013, and 2014. The latter two run the same (recently updated) FireOS version so I'd expect those to behave the same.

I realize some readers hate hyphenation, but wonder how they were ever able to enjoy reading books, magazines, newspapers in analog. Of course digital hyphenation historically has been poorly done, probably because there was not enough processing power to do it correctly. But we should be beyond that now.

Reading software based on Adobe RMSDK has done hyphenation for at least a couple of years now, and I don't seem to hear any complaints from ePub people, nor have I seen options to turn it off in the reading software. There is specific CSS to turn it off in webkit: http://www.pigsgourdsandwikis.com/20...ation-and.html
and in epub:
http://www.pagetoscreen.net/journal/...ve_for_hyphens

Don't know if those work here though.

[DreamWriter]

Originally Posted by tomsem

I cannot say the text 'looks darker' in LM than in other books. It stands to reason that the text is denser on the page because there isn't as much whitespace when hyphenation is in effect. But there's a way to check more precisely: take screen captures, load them into an image/photo editor, and compare pixels. I suppose that letters could be aligned on pixels differently in hyphenated vs non hyphenated modes, altering appearance, but I really would not expect that. I think it is just a 'perception' thing.

The darker fonts are very noticeable in my four recently republished e-books on the Fire HD6 when compared with the way it used to be (before the uploads that began February 14). Other e-books I've checked have crisp fonts, like mine used to. The fonts also appear darker on my Fire HD6 for The Tube Riders v1, which has auto-hyphenation like my books do now.

I just took the screenshots below on my Fire HD6. Both display Bookerly font. I enlarged the pixels in my photo-editing software, and there is a difference. The sample (on the right) is more blurry, and that's probably why it looks darker and less "crisp" on the device.

[image links broken]

Let me explain the screenshots above...

Left screenshot: When an author publishes to Kindle Direct Publishing (KDP), the file is initially "converted" by their software. The author can then use their online previewer to check that the file's okay. There's also an option to download the "converted" file, which is mobi (with KF8 included). After the author hits the Publish button, KDP does other mysterious things with the file. I think that's where my issues are being introduced.

Anyway...the screenshot on the left is how the file downloaded directly from KDP (after conversion there) looks on my Fire HD6. I submitted an epub file; the downloaded file is mobi (with KF8). It looks exactly the same on that device if I view a Kindlegen-created file that I make at home. The text looks rather pale and blurry in the screenshot, but it looks really nice on the device...sharp and easy to read! This is the way paragraph text in all four of my e-books (in both samples and the three e-books I had purchased) looked on Fire HD6 before I started uploading new versions a week or two ago! There was no auto-hyphenation then, either.

Right screenshot: This screenshot is from the sample obtained from the e-book's Amazon product page this morning. Notice the darker fonts (for both Chapter and paragraphs) and auto-hyphenation (circled). The graphic is also smaller on the Fire HD6 than it was before February 14, so something must've changed with that, too.

I will check on my HD7(2013) which I have at home.

Thanks! That information will help.

Reading software based on Adobe RMSDK has done hyphenation for at least a couple of years now, and I don't seem to hear any complaints from ePub people, nor have I seen options to turn it off in the reading software. There is specific CSS to turn it off in webkit: http://www.pigsgourdsandwikis.com/20...ation-and.html
and in epub:
http://www.pagetoscreen.net/journal/...ve_for_hyphens

Don't know if those work here though.

Yes, it does work in KF8. The auto-hyphenation can be turned off with this CSS:

body
{-webkit-hyphens:none;
hyphens:none;}

You can see a screenshot of that in my original post in this thread (labeled Example #3). The Chapter font has since changed, but the paragraphs would look the same if I intentionally turn off auto-hyphenation in CSS.

I may not upload additional changes to the file until the separate problem with book samples disappearing from product pages after publication is solved by KDP. They have assured me that they're working on that issue! If anyone does have suggestions for modifications to my CSS (which you can view in this post), please let me know. I'm keeping a list of changes to try in the future.

I apologize to everyone for the length of this thread! I realize that I am repeating myself sometimes.

[tomsem]

My HD7 (2013) just got the update to 4.5.3 and does show hyphenation.

I agree that is probably something that happens in KDP after you click Publish. For one thing, the bits that are delivered to a given device are not determined until download time. Device does will get either 'mobi7' or 'kf8' (or for iOS, yet another set of bits), the kf8 bits may well be different for the respective implementations.

it would be interesting to compare samples downloaded for different devices to see what is different (using mobiunpack).

[DreamWriter]

Originally Posted by tomsem

My HD7 (2013) just got the update to 4.5.3 and does show hyphenation.

Thanks for letting me know about your HD7. My Fire HD6 displayed auto-hyphenation (and darker text) for my e-books on both 4.5.2 and 4.5.3.

I agree that is probably something that happens in KDP after you click Publish. For one thing, the bits that are delivered to a given device are not determined until download time. Device does will get either 'mobi7' or 'kf8' (or for iOS, yet another set of bits), the kf8 bits may well be different for the respective implementations.

it would be interesting to compare samples downloaded for different devices to see what is different (using mobiunpack).

I just received a reply from KDP several hours ago:

...our technical team found that the problem seems to be that you are using the "text-align:justify in the CSS file, so we suggest you to (sic) try removing the tag and try to convert once again into .Mobi.

The only place I had text-align:justify; was in the CSS for mobi7. The CSS specifically for KF8 had none at all. There's nothing like that in the HTML either.

It makes no sense to me that mobi CSS would cause these problems on the Fire HD6, Fire HDX 8.9, and Fire HD7 (2013), which all read KF8. And why are other KF8 devices (and apps) not affected? But I made the changes they requested and uploaded a new Kindlegen-created mobi an hour ago. Perhaps such code could mess up the entire file conversion...who knows?

The only reason I had paragraph justification in the mobi CSS is because the smooth right margin looks so much nicer in the Look Inside than ragged-right margin.

I will be very surprised if this change in CSS fixes the problems. My other three e-books also have auto-hyphenation and darker text in recent uploads, and none of those have any text-align:justify; code at all!

I've never used mobiunpack. If it will run on an old Windows XP SP2 computer (not Internet-connected), I may take a look at that. If anyone wants to experiment with that, I'd be very interested in the results! I suggest you wait until tomorrow, though, because it sometimes takes a while for the latest e-book sample to become available.

Here's a list of affected devices so far:

• Fire HD6 (both 4.5.2 and 4.5.3)
• Fire HDX 8.9
• Fire HD7 (2013) - 4.5.3

And these devices/apps do not display the auto-hyphenation:

• Fire HD7 (original model)
• Voyage
• Paperwhite 1
• OS X (Mac)
• Kindle for iOS
• Kindle App for Android
• Kindle for PC

I should know by tomorrow if deleting that code fixed anything. I have to wait until the sample's available because the files always look perfect when I sideload the mobi to my devices.

[DreamWriter]

Well, as I expected, removing text-align:justify; from the mobi7 CSS paragraph code made no difference at all. The auto-hyphenation and darker text still persist in Last Mulligan on my Fire HD6.

I just sent an email to KDP's technical team with the results.

[Notjohn]

I specify justification in most of my styles (except where I specify left-align) and have done for years without any problem.

I think I mentioned earlier that I see some wild hyphens in David Mamet's The Secret Knowledge, in my Fire HD (7 inch). Even odder, that book is formatted ragged right!

[DreamWriter]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

I specify justification in most of my styles (except where I specify left-align) and have done for years without any problem.

Although Amazon Kindle Publishing Guidelines specify that main body text should be "device defaults," which means no text-alignment code, A LOT (most?) authors/publishers do—without any problems! I knew that KDP was barking up the wrong tree with their suggestion to remove text-align:justify; from the mobi7 CSS. But I'll try whatever they suggest since they're willing to continue the investigation.

So now, since removing that code, the Last Mulligan Look Inside has ragged-right margins, of course. It was so pretty before. Is there any way to change that? Almost all e-books have full justification in the Look Inside.

I think I mentioned earlier that I see some wild hyphens in David Mamet's The Secret Knowledge, in my Fire HD (7 inch). Even odder, that book is formatted ragged right!

Yes, I see auto-hyphens and left alignment, too. That book was published by Sentinel (Penguin) in 2011.

KDP sent me an e-mail this morning to let me know they're continuing their investigation. I probably won't make any changes until I hear from them again, but I am keeping a list of suggestions from forum members to try in the future. Thanks, everyone!

[dgatwood]

On a related note, I reported a Look Inside bug last Wednesday, and today I got word that they fixed it. I'm not sure if they've staffed up or what, but I could get used to that level of responsiveness.

[DreamWriter]

Originally Posted by dgatwood

On a related note, I reported a Look Inside bug last Wednesday, and today I got word that they fixed it. I'm not sure if they've staffed up or what, but I could get used to that level of responsiveness.

What was the problem with Look Inside you reported?

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by DreamWriter

What was the problem with Look Inside you reported?

I had some white-on-black text in a chapter heading. Some Kindle previewers rendered it in white-on-black as intended, and a few others rendered it as normal black-on-white text (less desirable, but tolerable), but Look Inside rendered it as black-on-black, which is pretty clearly wrong.

[DreamWriter]

Originally Posted by dgatwood

I had some white-on-black text in a chapter heading. Some Kindle previewers rendered it in white-on-black as intended, and a few others rendered it as normal black-on-white text (less desirable, but tolerable), but Look Inside rendered it as black-on-black, which is pretty clearly wrong.

Yes, black-on-black would be difficult to read!

[Notjohn]

Originally Posted by DreamWriter

Although Amazon Kindle Publishing Guidelines specify that main body text should be "device defaults," which means no text-alignment code, A LOT (most?) authors/publishers do—without any problems! I knew that KDP was barking up the wrong tree with their suggestion to remove text-align:justify; from the mobi7 CSS. But I'll try whatever they suggest since they're willing to continue the investigation.

So now, since removing that code, the Last Mulligan Look Inside has ragged-right margins, of course. It was so pretty before. Is there any way to change that? Almost all e-books have full justification in the Look Inside.

Well, my text-align:justified is in the CSS, not in the main body text. As you know, the CSS is stripped out and converted to in-line styling for the older Kindles. No doubt the text-align instruction isn't included in the in-line styling. But since the older Kindles are justified by default, that doesn't matter in the slightest.

[DreamWriter]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

Well, my text-align:justified is in the CSS, not in the main body text. As you know, the CSS is stripped out and converted to in-line styling for the older Kindles. No doubt the text-align instruction isn't included in the in-line styling. But since the older Kindles are justified by default, that doesn't matter in the slightest.

I had text-align:justify; only in the mobi-specific CSS for main paragraphs.

I know that the older Kindles justify by default. The only reason I specified full justification in mobi paragraph CSS was because I prefer the Look Inside to be fully justified. It did accomplish that. If I don't include it in the mobi CSS, my Look Insides have all ragged-right lines. I removed it at KDP's request, since specifying full justification for body/main paragraphs goes against their official guidelines. I may put it back in at some point because I'd like my Look Inside text to have a smooth right margin, like almost every other e-book.

I'm still uploading new files in attempts to figure out why my e-books have auto-hyphenation on Fire HD6 in recently uploaded versions. They didn't in the past. No luck so far, but I'm not ready to give up yet. I have't heard back from KDP in the last few days but they have assured me they're still investigating.

It's clear to me that the auto-hyphenation is introduced in later stages of publication. The mobi I download directly from KDP is fine on my Fire HD6. What I don't know is whether there's something specific in my CSS/HTML/NCX/OPF that triggers this or if it's a more widespread glitch within the KDP process. I upload either epub or Kindlegen-created mobi files, but I've seen the same auto-hyphen problem in e-books by other authors who uploaded Word files. They may have had hyphenation in their source file, though.

[Notjohn]

I think you misunderstand the guidelines. Justification never appears in the body of the book, either in the KF8 file (because it's in the style sheet) nor in the Mobi 7 file (because there is no style sheet, and the in-line styles do not include that instruction). Or perhaps the Support responder misunderstood, which has been known to happen. I have a couple dozen books for sale on Amazon; all have justified text on both the Look Inside sample and (of course) on the actual book delivered to various devices and apps. And none has ever aroused Amazon's ire.

I suspect that most New York publishers also use the text-align instruction, since most of their books are justified on the Look Inside sample.

You're very likely correct that the hyphenation issue is introduced in the publishing process. (It's not the only such issue: the Start Reading Location appears to be set there also, and there's apparently nothing we can do about it.) It could be that Amazon is experimenting with auto-hyphenation. Like you, I wish it wouldn't!

[DreamWriter]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

I think you misunderstand the guidelines. Justification never appears in the body of the book, either in the KF8 file (because it's in the style sheet) nor in the Mobi 7 file (because there is no style sheet, and the in-line styles do not include that instruction). Or perhaps the Support responder misunderstood, which has been known to happen. I have a couple dozen books for sale on Amazon; all have justified text on both the Look Inside sample and (of course) on the actual book delivered to various devices and apps. And none has ever aroused Amazon's ire.

I suspect that most New York publishers also use the text-align instruction, since most of their books are justified on the Look Inside sample.

I have two style sheets for each e-book: KF8 and Mobi7. These are called with media queries. I've done it this way since KF8 became available a few years ago and never had any problems with my e-books prior to February of this year.

The only way I can get my "Look Inside" to have full justification now is to add text-align:justify; to the Mobi7 CSS for paragraphs (not "body" CSS).

See the "Look Inside" for Lotto: Blood Money as an example. It's the only one of my e-books that currently has justification code in Mobi7 paragraph CSS (I just added it yesterday). My other three e-books' "Look Insides" have ragged-right margins right now because there's no justification specified in Mobi7 paragraph CSS. It's so ugly. I plan to remedy that soon, though. I'm just waiting to see what else KDP's technical team comes up with before I change things again.

This is what I was told by KDP after they began their investigation into auto-hyphenation in my e-books:

... Also I'd like to let you know that our technical team found that the problem seems to be that you are using the "text-align: justify" in the CSS file, so we suggest you to try removing the tag and try to convert once again into .Mobi.

I had text-align:justify; only in the Mobi7 CSS for paragraphs; it was nowhere else in either CSS or HTML. Of course, removing that made no difference other than returning my "Look Inside" to all ragged-right lines.

In the last few days, I've been experimenting with Lotto: Blood Money. A Lotto file I had uploaded on January 31, 2015, was fine (I have screenshots). It had no auto-hyphenation or darker text in the sample or purchased e-book. A re-upload of the same epub file just a few days ago introduced those problems.

Something in KDP's later-stage file processing must have changed within the last month or so. When I sideload both the Kindlegen-created e-book and "converted" KDP file downloaded directly from them, everything looks fine on my Fire HD6. But the product-page downloadable sample and purchased e-books have auto-hyphenation and darker text. And, as far as I know, this is affecting only Fire HD6 (both software 4.5.2 and 4.5.3), Fire HDX 8.9, and Fire HD7 (2013). Lots of weirdness!