Are bookstores still worth fighting for? - Page 2

rhadin · 07-20-2013, 07:22 AM

I still support my local bookstore. I don't go as often or buy as much, but I still buy between 100 and 125 hardcovers every year. I find ebooks are great for books that I want to read once and then forget I ever read them, but not for books whose content I want to remember and which I might want to access again in the future.

I have about 5,000 ebooks. Once I read an ebook, it is moved out of sight (and out of mind). There is no really convenient way to "scan" the virtual library. There is a limit to how many books can be displayed on the e-reader screen and still be recognizable, so I don't get that virtual library view. OTOH, I have a physical library filled with hardcovers and when I want to relook at a book or a subject, I can stand in the middle of the room and scan the shelves. As I scan the shelves, I can recall (partly) what a book was about and I can find the book I am looking for with minimal difficulty.

I realize that I could create tags for ebooks, but that would need to be done after I have read the book and would take more time than I am willing to devote to dealing with the metadata.

Anyway, in order to support my physical library, I need to continue buying hardcovers, which means I need to continue to support bookstores. Most of the books I buy are bought as a result of scanning bookstore shelves, pulling a book from the shelf, and reading the blurb and maybe a few pages. I find it pleasurable to do this in person in a bookstore; I find I have no patience to do it virtually online.

SouthernSun · 07-20-2013, 08:18 AM

Despite having owned a Kindle for a few years now, I have absolutely no desire to restrict my reading to electronic mediums. I prefer paper books and strongly support my local bookstore. They know me by name and will often order a book they think I'll like before I even need to ask.

jersysman · 07-20-2013, 09:10 AM

I think as the younger generations come along, there will be less and less reading of paper books. This is a digital age now and technology waits for no one. Sure, there will still be the odd book store here or there, but they will become less and less numerous. The younger generation will not have the affinity that we older generations have to paper books. It is all just progress. Either it is adopted or those that choose not to will just get run over by it.

danskmacabre · 07-20-2013, 12:32 PM

I want t bookstores to survive. I like walking around a book store and browse books, but it's been a long time since I've bought a new pbook. They never seem to have what I'm looking for, whereas with ebooks you can always buy what you want.

I've bought quite a few pbooks from a 2nd hand book store though, but then they're cheaper and it's nice to pick up an old book and take a chance on it.

cfrizz · 07-20-2013, 12:45 PM

I've gone completely digital. I'd much rather shop for my books online in the comfort of my home sitting down at my computer rather than standing on my feet hoping to find a book I want to read in a bookstore.

Ravensknight · 07-20-2013, 01:16 PM

No "business" is worth fighting for. They either survive or they don't. It isn't on me.

I wish do gooder tapshoe'ing nancies would stop trying to place blame/guilt on ME when it is the bookstores responsibility for their own success.

Actually, now that I think about it, maybe I should start some sort of charity to give the money to me since my job just doesn't quite allow me the lifestyle I deserve!

6charlong · 07-20-2013, 05:51 PM

What’s killing brick and mortar bookstores is Amazon. Not the Kindle or eBooks, it’s having a source for millions of books in any format, whether in print or out of print, 24 hour a day, every day of the year, without leaving your home, and having the exact thing you need, in your hands, within a couple minutes (eBooks) to a couple days (pBooks).

More to the point: “Is it good for Amazon to have competition for the sale of books?” Books, not eBooks. But that’s a different issue.

I think some brick and mortar places will adapt and survive. New models are already emerging. The one that interests me most sort-of merges what public and private libraries once did, adapting what you can do with a commercial space to an interest in the universe of things we use books and similar products for. Customer service, location and things like snack and coffee shops come together with technical books and monographs, comic books, picture books, children’s corners, audio books and players, movies, etc., etc. Innovation and creativity wins. Lamenting the past is a waste of resources.

Anyway, I will continue to support bookstores that support me and I think others will too, if only out of self-interest.

dickloraine · 07-20-2013, 06:53 PM

About what kind of bookstore are we talking? I'm from germany, so I don't know, if the situation is alike in the US or in other countries.

There is this picture in our head, of a nice local bookstore, the owner stands in his store and he and all his employees love books. If we ask for a recommendation, we get asked questions and maybe we get into a conversation about books.

But apart from some niche stores, this stores where rare some time ago and now nearly extinct. And it was not the e-Book or Amazon, but big bookstore-chains who killed these stores. It is ironic, that now these corporations blame Amazon.

Getting informations and recommendations about books is in my opinion easier and better through the internet. And many people here do not make money by recommending a book

Oh, and some statements in the original quote are a little bit strange.

Quote:

the sad fact is that I wouldn't be sitting in a bookshop ready to sign your Kindle when a new book came out.

Okay, then why not sit in somewhere else? In a cafe, a meeting hall, a convention etc? Why not making Q&A with reddit? Etc.

Quote:

So if, like me, you want to see books flourishing in all their forms, it's vital to support the booksellers who continue to be the mainstay of the publishing business.

So, if paperbooks are the mainstay, why should we even need to support bookstores? Shouldn't we help the underdog? And even stating that paper books are "the mainstay" is questionable. And is it important for the number of books selled and read, where they are bought?

This emotional "arguing" is a little bit annoying. To say it with the Simpsons: "Think of the children!"

cfrizz · 07-20-2013, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dickloraine

About what kind of bookstore are we talking? I'm from germany, so I don't know, if the situation is alike in the US or in other countries.

There is this picture in our head, of a nice local bookstore, the owner stands in his store and he and all his employees love books. If we ask for a recommendation, we get asked questions and maybe we get into a conversation about books.

But apart from some niche stores, this stores where rare some time ago and now nearly extinct. And it was not the e-Book or Amazon, but big bookstore-chains who killed these stores. It is ironic, that now these corporations blame Amazon.

BINGO, CRY ME A RIVER!

Getting informations and recommendations about books is in my opinion easier and better through the internet. And many people here do not make money by recommending a book

Precisely.

Oh, and some statements in the original quote are a little bit strange.

Okay, then why not sit in somewhere else? In a cafe, a meeting hall, a convention etc? Why not making Q&A with reddit? Etc.

I've never been interested to stand in line just to have some supposed "star, author etc. sign anything for me.

So, if paperbooks are the mainstay, why should we even need to support bookstores? Shouldn't we help the underdog? And even stating that paper books are "the mainstay" is questionable. And is it important for the number of books selled and read, where they are bought?

This emotional "arguing" is a little bit annoying. To say it with the Simpsons: "Think of the children!"

Thank you, outstanding post!

SouthernSun · 07-20-2013, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jersysman

I think as the younger generations come along, there will be less and less reading of paper books. This is a digital age now and technology waits for no one. Sure, there will still be the odd book store here or there, but they will become less and less numerous. The younger generation will not have the affinity that we older generations have to paper books. It is all just progress. Either it is adopted or those that choose not to will just get run over by it.

I don't think that's accurate, at least not everywhere.

I'm 21 myself, and in my area you're far more likely to see a 30+ person using an ereader, and the younger crowd using paper.

WT Sharpe · 07-20-2013, 09:41 PM

I agree that most brick and mortar bookstores have seen better days, and people are leaving them for the convenience of online shopping. The neighborhood bookstores are going the way of the mom & pop corner grocery stores, but that doesn't mean I can't lament their passing. When I was a kid, I knew the names of the store owners where my mom would send me to buy bread, milk, and other staples of daily existence. Having 24-hour convenience stores every few blocks is much more suited to the way we live today, but don't ask me the names of any of the clerks. With the high turnover in employees, it makes little sense to bother with learning them. In like manner, it's much easier to go online whenever the mood strikes and browse for new reading material. But there's little chance of striking up a conversation in the process.

crich70 · 07-20-2013, 10:03 PM

I think the pbooks will still be around for a while yet. Maybe they will downsize on actual stored inventory i.e. books on shelves and switch more to POD books, but not everything is going to be in ebook format anytime soon. Eleanor Cameron's books about the Mushroom planet (I read them as a kid) for example isn't in ebook format and may not be for some time yet, so I think the old bookstores have some mileage yet on them. Ebooks are more convenient in some ways, but they are a different experience to pbooks as well. In the end though you can't hold back progress. The U.S. Post Office is finding that out now days. They are using a 19th century model for mail delivery in the 21st century. Back then sending a letter and getting a reply back a couple weeks later (for non vital news) was fast. Now days it's slow. Back in 1988 when I was working at Summer Camp we had an international scout from Sri Lanka. It took 6 weeks to get mail from the camp to his home and the season was only 6 weeks long. Now days he could send an e-mail and get an answer back within a matter of hours (making allowances for time zone differences). Likewise bookstores will have to change their business model just as publishers will.

ebusinesstutor · 07-21-2013, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dickloraine

And it was not the e-Book or Amazon, but big bookstore-chains who killed these stores. It is ironic, that now these corporations blame Amazon.

I agree totally. Amazon just did to the big book chains what the big book chains did to them.

I do enjoy browsing book stores, but when I can pick up the same book for 30-40% less on Amazon with free shipping, I rarely buy there. If they close, so be it.

I agree that book stores need to reinvent themselves. They need to make it easy for people to buy ebooks right while in the store. So we could see a title, scan a code and have it added to our electronic reader right on the spot.

Other creative ideas such as coffee shops, speciality focus etc. will be needed to survive.

speakingtohe · 07-21-2013, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

I agree that most brick and mortar bookstores have seen better days, and people are leaving them for the convenience of online shopping. The neighborhood bookstores are going the way of the mom & pop corner grocery stores, but that doesn't mean I can't lament their passing. When I was a kid, I knew the names of the store owners where my mom would send me to buy bread, milk, and other staples of daily existence. Having 24-hour convenience stores every few blocks is much more suited to the way we live today, but don't ask me the names of any of the clerks. With the high turnover in employees, it makes little sense to bother with learning them. In like manner, it's much easier to go online whenever the mood strikes and browse for new reading material. But there's little chance of striking up a conversation in the process.

I think niche stores with good service and quality will always have a following. I shop regularly at the vegetable store a block away and at the privately owned pharmacy. The prices are not always competitive and they are not one stop shopping, but I appreciate the convenience and the pharmacy will even deliver at no charge. I have never had them deliver, but if I was really needing something and could not get it myself, nice to know.

Privately owned bookstores have become fewer and will likely continue on becoming fewer, but so have most privately owned small stores. Most bookstores I have frequented in the last 30 years have been chain stores or franchises. Not by choice, but because that is what there was. Mom and pop grocery stores have given away to franchise stores, although these are for the most part privately owned. The owners pay a franchise fee and are only allowed to carry certain products purchased from head office, but in most cases they pay the rent and wages and manage the business, not 711 or Mac's milk, and are often just as nice to me as mom and pop ever were.

Helen

crich70 · 07-21-2013, 04:06 AM

Even the old mom and pop stores must have had their regular products that they always bought from the same distributor though. I mean even if the sweet corn that their customers bought was locally grown it had to come from somewhere and a lot of manufactured goods no doubt were bought from other suppliers like Sears & Robuck and then resold to the local customers who wouldn't then have to order the products and wait for them to arrive. The last time a community was totally self-sufficient was when the serfs were working the land for the local lord of the manor.

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07-20-2013, 07:22 AM	#16
rhadin Literacy = Understanding Posts: 4,833 Karma: 59674358 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The World of Books Device: Nook, Nook Tablet	I still support my local bookstore. I don't go as often or buy as much, but I still buy between 100 and 125 hardcovers every year. I find ebooks are great for books that I want to read once and then forget I ever read them, but not for books whose content I want to remember and which I might want to access again in the future. I have about 5,000 ebooks. Once I read an ebook, it is moved out of sight (and out of mind). There is no really convenient way to "scan" the virtual library. There is a limit to how many books can be displayed on the e-reader screen and still be recognizable, so I don't get that virtual library view. OTOH, I have a physical library filled with hardcovers and when I want to relook at a book or a subject, I can stand in the middle of the room and scan the shelves. As I scan the shelves, I can recall (partly) what a book was about and I can find the book I am looking for with minimal difficulty. I realize that I could create tags for ebooks, but that would need to be done after I have read the book and would take more time than I am willing to devote to dealing with the metadata. Anyway, in order to support my physical library, I need to continue buying hardcovers, which means I need to continue to support bookstores. Most of the books I buy are bought as a result of scanning bookstore shelves, pulling a book from the shelf, and reading the blurb and maybe a few pages. I find it pleasurable to do this in person in a bookstore; I find I have no patience to do it virtually online.

07-20-2013, 08:18 AM	#17
SouthernSun Connoisseur Posts: 59 Karma: 166452 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Australia Device: Kindle Keyboard	Despite having owned a Kindle for a few years now, I have absolutely no desire to restrict my reading to electronic mediums. I prefer paper books and strongly support my local bookstore. They know me by name and will often order a book they think I'll like before I even need to ask.

07-20-2013, 09:10 AM	#18
jersysman Wizard Posts: 1,747 Karma: 3761220 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Pennsylvania Device: T1 Red, Kindle Fire, Kindle PW, PW2, Nook HD+, Kobo Mini, Aura HD	I think as the younger generations come along, there will be less and less reading of paper books. This is a digital age now and technology waits for no one. Sure, there will still be the odd book store here or there, but they will become less and less numerous. The younger generation will not have the affinity that we older generations have to paper books. It is all just progress. Either it is adopted or those that choose not to will just get run over by it.

07-20-2013, 12:32 PM	#19
danskmacabre Guru Posts: 733 Karma: 3593438 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Glo. Galaxy Tab S 8.4	I want t bookstores to survive. I like walking around a book store and browse books, but it's been a long time since I've bought a new pbook. They never seem to have what I'm looking for, whereas with ebooks you can always buy what you want. I've bought quite a few pbooks from a 2nd hand book store though, but then they're cheaper and it's nice to pick up an old book and take a chance on it.

07-20-2013, 12:45 PM	#20
cfrizz Wizard Posts: 1,531 Karma: 34583358 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Quincy, MA Device: Samsung 54A, Kobo Libra H2O, Samsung S6 Lite	I've gone completely digital. I'd much rather shop for my books online in the comfort of my home sitting down at my computer rather than standing on my feet hoping to find a book I want to read in a bookstore.

07-20-2013, 01:16 PM	#21
Ravensknight Serpent Rider Posts: 1,123 Karma: 10219804 Join Date: Jun 2009 Device: Sony 350; Nook STR; Oasis	No "business" is worth fighting for. They either survive or they don't. It isn't on me. I wish do gooder tapshoe'ing nancies would stop trying to place blame/guilt on ME when it is the bookstores responsibility for their own success. Actually, now that I think about it, maybe I should start some sort of charity to give the money to me since my job just doesn't quite allow me the lifestyle I deserve!

07-20-2013, 05:51 PM	#22
6charlong friendly lurker Posts: 896 Karma: 2436026 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: US Device: Kindle, nook, Apple and Kobo	What’s killing brick and mortar bookstores is Amazon. Not the Kindle or eBooks, it’s having a source for millions of books in any format, whether in print or out of print, 24 hour a day, every day of the year, without leaving your home, and having the exact thing you need, in your hands, within a couple minutes (eBooks) to a couple days (pBooks). More to the point: “Is it good for Amazon to have competition for the sale of books?” Books, not eBooks. But that’s a different issue. I think some brick and mortar places will adapt and survive. New models are already emerging. The one that interests me most sort-of merges what public and private libraries once did, adapting what you can do with a commercial space to an interest in the universe of things we use books and similar products for. Customer service, location and things like snack and coffee shops come together with technical books and monographs, comic books, picture books, children’s corners, audio books and players, movies, etc., etc. Innovation and creativity wins. Lamenting the past is a waste of resources. Anyway, I will continue to support bookstores that support me and I think others will too, if only out of self-interest.

07-20-2013, 09:41 PM	#26
WT Sharpe Bah, humbug! Posts: 39,073 Karma: 157049943 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Pro, & a Samsung Galaxy S9.	I agree that most brick and mortar bookstores have seen better days, and people are leaving them for the convenience of online shopping. The neighborhood bookstores are going the way of the mom & pop corner grocery stores, but that doesn't mean I can't lament their passing. When I was a kid, I knew the names of the store owners where my mom would send me to buy bread, milk, and other staples of daily existence. Having 24-hour convenience stores every few blocks is much more suited to the way we live today, but don't ask me the names of any of the clerks. With the high turnover in employees, it makes little sense to bother with learning them. In like manner, it's much easier to go online whenever the mood strikes and browse for new reading material. But there's little chance of striking up a conversation in the process.

07-20-2013, 10:03 PM	#27
crich70 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,305 Karma: 43993832 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Monroe Wisconsin Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)	I think the pbooks will still be around for a while yet. Maybe they will downsize on actual stored inventory i.e. books on shelves and switch more to POD books, but not everything is going to be in ebook format anytime soon. Eleanor Cameron's books about the Mushroom planet (I read them as a kid) for example isn't in ebook format and may not be for some time yet, so I think the old bookstores have some mileage yet on them. Ebooks are more convenient in some ways, but they are a different experience to pbooks as well. In the end though you can't hold back progress. The U.S. Post Office is finding that out now days. They are using a 19th century model for mail delivery in the 21st century. Back then sending a letter and getting a reply back a couple weeks later (for non vital news) was fast. Now days it's slow. Back in 1988 when I was working at Summer Camp we had an international scout from Sri Lanka. It took 6 weeks to get mail from the camp to his home and the season was only 6 weeks long. Now days he could send an e-mail and get an answer back within a matter of hours (making allowances for time zone differences). Likewise bookstores will have to change their business model just as publishers will.

07-21-2013, 04:06 AM	#30
crich70 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,305 Karma: 43993832 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Monroe Wisconsin Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)	Even the old mom and pop stores must have had their regular products that they always bought from the same distributor though. I mean even if the sweet corn that their customers bought was locally grown it had to come from somewhere and a lot of manufactured goods no doubt were bought from other suppliers like Sears & Robuck and then resold to the local customers who wouldn't then have to order the products and wait for them to arrive. The last time a community was totally self-sufficient was when the serfs were working the land for the local lord of the manor.