Supply pirates with warez, bust them later!

doctorow · 03-22-2005, 06:06 PM

Crazy world we are living in. This is straight from Slashdot:

Posted on Tuesday March 22, @11:22PM
American Sweden writes "Concerning the bust at the Swedish ISP Bahnhof on March 10, IDG Sweden is reporting that Bahnhof has posted their findings of an internal inspection. It seems as if the Anti-Piracy Buereau of Sweden and their infiltrator "Rouge" had a good deal of involvement in supporting the busted FTP server not only with hardware but with so called "warez" as well. The blog of Lars Backlund has a translated version of the interview conducted in the report of Bahnhof." P2PNet.net has a breakdown of the relevant details as well. From the article: "As it turns out, APB (or, rather, their hired informer) supplied the servers and uploaded copyrighted materials. So that's why they were so sure to find stuff, they put it there!"

Entrapment. Anti-piracy groups (not even a government authority) planting evidence to bust someone afterwards? Is it just me or does this go too far?

Timb · 03-23-2005, 09:58 AM

There is more on this in a Swedish local news:
http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?I...5e5bff06fd9c03

woldinghamuk · 01-02-2008, 04:02 PM

well, what can I say... going a bit too far..

Ervserver · 01-02-2008, 04:18 PM

desperation

HarryT · 01-03-2008, 04:30 AM

Sounds like an excellent idea to me!

Sparrow · 01-03-2008, 05:16 AM

Neither side can grumble about the methods of their adversary.
(Well, they can - but it's pretty pointless.)

It's a 'no quarter asked, no quarter given' struggle imho - anything goes!

woldinghamuk · 01-04-2008, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Sounds like an excellent idea to me!

the idea is maybe excellent, but in my country it would be considered illegal. the authorities cannot go for results in such a blatant way.

HarryT · 01-04-2008, 05:42 AM

People engaged in criminal activities can hardly complain that the authorities are being "unfair" in using entrapment techniques against them. The honest person has nothing to fear from such tactics.

Sparrow · 01-04-2008, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

People engaged in criminal activities can hardly complain that the authorities are being "unfair" in using entrapment techniques against them. The honest person has nothing to fear from such tactics.

I'd say 'law-abiding' rather than 'honest' - it's about conforming to a legal standard, rather than a moral one.

TadW · 01-04-2008, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

People engaged in criminal activities can hardly complain that the authorities are being "unfair" in using entrapment techniques against them.

How far are these techniques supposed to go? And who says they were engaged in criminal activities prior to authorities using unauthorized means to criminalize them?

The police should concentrate their noble efforts on countering real crimes committed every day. They do not need to manipulate a situation where temptation may overcome even people who would normally never think of committing a crime.

bingle · 01-04-2008, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

People engaged in criminal activities can hardly complain that the authorities are being "unfair" in using entrapment techniques against them. The honest person has nothing to fear from such tactics.

This is why, in the US, police officers are issued small bags of illegal drugs such as cocaine or marijuana. That way, when they find someone who needs to be arrested, but there's no evidence, they can just conveniently drop the bags!

It really works out well. Lots of people go to jail, and honest people have nothing to fear from that. If you don't look like you might possibly be dealing drugs, you have nothing to worry about, mostly.

They've already started to expand this technique for terrorism and other crimes. I can only hope they can find a way to keep expanding it!

slayda · 01-04-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingle

This is why, in the US, police officers are issued small bags of illegal drugs such as cocaine or marijuana. That way, when they find someone who needs to be arrested, but there's no evidence, they can just conveniently drop the bags!

It really works out well. Lots of people go to jail, and honest people have nothing to fear from that. If you don't look like you might possibly be dealing drugs, you have nothing to worry about, mostly.

They've already started to expand this technique for terrorism and other crimes. I can only hope they can find a way to keep expanding it!

Bingle, this is BS. You refute your own statement when you say "If you don't look like you might possibly be dealing drugs, you have nothing to worry about, mostly." An "honest person" might "look like" he might be dealing drugs.

In addition, doing it is illegal and, not only allowing it, but also bragging about it is immoral. You are putting complete trust in the police rather than the legal system. Haven't you ever heard of corrupt policemen?

That said, I have a neighbor who had MJ in pots in his back yard. Police only confiscated it. He had a meth lab in his garage and served no time in prison.

bingle · 01-04-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slayda

In addition, doing it is illegal and, not only allowing it, but also bragging about it is immoral. You are putting complete trust in the police rather than the legal system. Haven't you ever heard of corrupt policemen?

Hey, the honest have nothing to fear from planted evidence! If you suspect that someone is engaged in illegal activity, then they deserve whatever happens to them, even if you have to fabricate your case against them. I know HarryT agrees with me - he doesn't want to see undesirables walking the streets any more than I do.

If you ask me, the police should have planted the evidence on the servers, then just shot the pirates. If they wait for a trial, then they might get off scot-free, just because the police made up the whole thing. That can't be allowed to happen.

tompe · 01-04-2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

People engaged in criminal activities can hardly complain that the authorities are being "unfair" in using entrapment techniques against them. The honest person has nothing to fear from such tactics.

What criminal activities? This case has not been to court yet and there is still a debate if the activity (publishing torrents) is illegal or not. Notice that piratebay did not or claim they did not distribute any material. But until the case have been to court you cannot claim that they did something illegal.

Also the report first in this thread is probably wrong. I have not seen it before and it is not something that is mentioned at all.

In Sweden entrapment is illegal. So I assume you are against it since you are against everything that is illegal.

TadW · 01-04-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

What criminal activities? This case hase not been to court yet and there is still a debate if the activty (publishing torrents) is illegal or not.

Also, according to this interview, the person who did most the illegal was the one hired by the police. Is the police above the law? Not in Sweden, and I assume also not in the US. Not even the record or film industries were aware of these "underground" operations.

03-22-2005, 06:06 PM	#1
doctorow Guru Posts: 914 Karma: 3410461 Join Date: May 2004 Device: Kindle Touch	Supply pirates with warez, bust them later! Crazy world we are living in. This is straight from Slashdot: Posted on Tuesday March 22, @11:22PM American Sweden writes "Concerning the bust at the Swedish ISP Bahnhof on March 10, IDG Sweden is reporting that Bahnhof has posted their findings of an internal inspection. It seems as if the Anti-Piracy Buereau of Sweden and their infiltrator "Rouge" had a good deal of involvement in supporting the busted FTP server not only with hardware but with so called "warez" as well. The blog of Lars Backlund has a translated version of the interview conducted in the report of Bahnhof." P2PNet.net has a breakdown of the relevant details as well. From the article: "As it turns out, APB (or, rather, their hired informer) supplied the servers and uploaded copyrighted materials. So that's why they were so sure to find stuff, they put it there!" Entrapment. Anti-piracy groups (not even a government authority) planting evidence to bust someone afterwards? Is it just me or does this go too far?

01-03-2008, 05:16 AM	#6
Sparrow Wizard Posts: 4,395 Karma: 1358132 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: UK Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3	Neither side can grumble about the methods of their adversary. (Well, they can - but it's pretty pointless.) It's a 'no quarter asked, no quarter given' struggle imho - anything goes! Last edited by Sparrow; 01-03-2008 at 05:18 AM. Reason: Grumbling clarification

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03-23-2005, 09:58 AM	#2
Timb Nameless Being	There is more on this in a Swedish local news: http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?I...5e5bff06fd9c03

01-02-2008, 04:02 PM	#3
woldinghamuk Enthusiast Posts: 46 Karma: 151 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Czech Republic Device: ebookwise 1150 + sony reader 500	well, what can I say... going a bit too far..

01-02-2008, 04:18 PM	#4
Ervserver Wizard Posts: 2,624 Karma: 1008294 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Iowa, USA Device: Nook Simple Touch	desperation

01-03-2008, 04:30 AM	#5
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Sounds like an excellent idea to me!

01-04-2008, 05:42 AM	#8
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	People engaged in criminal activities can hardly complain that the authorities are being "unfair" in using entrapment techniques against them. The honest person has nothing to fear from such tactics.

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