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Old 12-06-2010, 03:09 PM   #61
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As I see it, publishers offer four services. 1) They weed out bad books. Take Baen: I know what type/quality of book I will get if it is published by Baen. 2) They provide a second set of eyes to edit and guide the book as well as proofreading. 3) They produce the book. 4) They market it.
5. They distribute the book to brick and mortar bookstores, and accept returns of unsold books. Those are still very important to book sales. Not around here, but out in the world, yes.

It's already been mentioned about the stockholders--but remember, the "big publishing companies" are actually small fish in much bigger conglomerates, many of which (if not all, but I don't want to state absolutes and I'm too lazy to look it up) are owned by companies outside the U.S. The publishing companies have to be profitable. They have to pull their weight in the larger conglomerate. (Please note I'm not making a moral judgment here--just stating how it is.)

Also, most large publishing companies have smaller imprints within them. The imprints can sometimes do more to nurture the midlisters, and feel more like a small company-within-a-company. These are slowly dying out, however, as the larger companies close them down or fold them back into the larger entity.

From my own experience, each paradigm (big publisher vs. indie) has advantages and disadvantages. At this point in time, I don't think a definitive statement can be made that one or the other is better. In a year or so, maybe we'll see. But don't count the big guys out yet. No matter what your personal tastes might be, most books are still sold through them, and it will remain that way for a while yet.
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Old 12-07-2010, 02:10 AM   #62
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When did that happen?
Baen moved to NC in 2000.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:24 PM   #63
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Baen moved to NC in 2000.
Really. I thought their offices were still in NYC. No wonder they're not like any other publisher.
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:07 AM   #64
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Really. I thought their offices were still in NYC. No wonder they're not like any other publisher.


Geographic location has nothing to do with how a company runs its business.

If you are curious as to why so many publishers are in New York and London (or, more generally, why businesses tend to "clump" in one particular location), I suggest you read up on Paul Krugman's "New Economic Geography," and similar location theories.
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:01 PM   #65
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Geographic location has nothing to do with how a company runs its business.

If you are curious as to why so many publishers are in New York and London (or, more generally, why businesses tend to "clump" in one particular location), I suggest you read up on Paul Krugman's "New Economic Geography," and similar location theories.
Worthwhile reading, IMO -- a blog post that Krugman wrote after winning his Nobel:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/200...bout-the-work/
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:01 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post


Geographic location has nothing to do with how a company runs its business.

If you are curious as to why so many publishers are in New York and London (or, more generally, why businesses tend to "clump" in one particular location), I suggest you read up on Paul Krugman's "New Economic Geography," and similar location theories.
I disagree. It indicates the mindset of the company.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:33 PM   #67
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I disagree. It indicates the mindset of the company.
Not to mention the cost of rent and salaries, which directly impact book prices.
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:04 PM   #68
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Not to mention the cost of rent and salaries, which directly impact book prices.
Yes.

The real reason that big publishers are dropping mid list authors isn't that they're not profitable, it's that they're not profitable _enough_. Working out of NYC imposes a very high operations cost which has to be recouped.

And the other reason mid list authors are being dropped is that publishers are being pushed by their media conglomerate owners to be more profitable than is really a good idea.
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:44 PM   #69
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The idea that brains of New Yorkers are all that different than anywhere else is slightly ridiculous.

Also, don't forget that many big publishers are not based in NY (e.g. Harlequin is in Toronto; Penguin in London).

And of course, there are numerous small publishers in NYC.


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The real reason that big publishers are dropping mid list authors isn't that they're not profitable, it's that they're not profitable _enough_. Working out of NYC imposes a very high operations cost which has to be recouped.
With all due respect, that's BS.

New York is more expensive that other places. However, a publisher that relocates to Nebraska is not going to save money.

Why? Because pretty much everyone they need to do business with is also in New York. Editors, agents, marketers, lawyers, journalists and media, academics, researchers, investors, authors, they form a critical density in New York. What are they going to do, fly out 1/2 their staff every week to NY and LA? Fly an author and his/her agent to West Nowhere?

Even the most technologically advanced industries benefit from geographic proximity to industry centers, regardless of the cost of living in those areas -- Silicon Valley, SF, Austin, Virginia. Face time and networking matter, and you don't get those if you are in cheap rural areas.

A genre publisher can get out of those loops if they don't need those resources. However, that hardly makes for a model for any other publisher.


And yes, the big publishers are definitely pruning their rosters of writers who are not making money. Those authors get picked up by small publishers, many of whom have offices in -- wait for it -- New York City.

Publishers of all sizes have been in NY for decades. It's not like they suddenly moved to the Big Apple in 2003, and now it's hitting their bottom lines.

What has changed recently is that authors and agents are demanding big advances from big pubs; and the publishers are giving it to them. This raises the bar for the author's sales figures.

So if you get a $300k advance (like one author cited in the article), and you only sell 10,000 copies, unless the publisher got $30 per copy at the wholesale price you are in the red; whereas if you got a $50k advance, you'd be alright. So why would, or should, they keep you around...?
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Old 12-10-2010, 03:44 AM   #70
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With all due respect, that's BS.

New York is more expensive that other places. However, a publisher that relocates to Nebraska is not going to save money.

Why? Because pretty much everyone they need to do business with is also in New York. Editors, agents, marketers, lawyers, journalists and media, academics, researchers, investors, authors, they form a critical density in New York. What are they going to do, fly out 1/2 their staff every week to NY and LA? Fly an author and his/her agent to West Nowhere?
That doesn't have to be true, at least for agents, editors, academics, and researchers. I was at a scifi con a couple years ago and the editor there was saying how she telecommutes. I think she was from Penguin or maybe it was Tor. Also, authors aren't mostly gathered in New York; they're all over the place. Mail, telephone, and now email work perfectly well for editors and publishers to discuss things with authors to get their work done. Why would they need to fly them into the office? I think Jim Baen met David Weber for the first time at Chicon 2000.
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Old 12-10-2010, 08:52 AM   #71
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That doesn't have to be true, at least for agents, editors, academics, and researchers....
Yes, you can telecommute. But it is not a replacement for face-to-face contact. As evidenced by....

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I think Jim Baen met David Weber for the first time at Chicon 2000.


(I.e. you can face-to-face network once a year, or five times a week. Which offers an advantage?)

And keep in mind that a big pub like Random House is putting out well over 200 books in a typical week -- probably twice as many as Baen does in an entire year. A big pub requires the labor of a lot of people, many of whom do need face-to-face contact in order to work optimally.

Agents definitely benefit from being able to meet face-to-face quickly, as does, well, anyone who's doing business with agents. Authors benefit by being closer to and networking with other media and periodicals, which often provides an additional source of work and exposure.

Baen can run their business just fine outside of a major publishing center, because they're a small genre publisher and (among other factors) only require a fraction of the resources of a larger firm. But I seriously doubt that they truly regard their business all that differently than any New York City publisher of the same size. Nor does it make sense to cite location as the reason why they have a different corporate culture than a company that is probably 100x its size....
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