09-24-2010, 03:51 PM | #181 |
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Steampunk is an interesting type of SF: On one hand, it mostly applies technology that could have existed, but didn't, making most of it "hard" SF; On the other hand, it represents an alternate reality, which is "soft" SF, and as my 3rd law suggested, it is usually considered "soft" based on its alternate reality element.
Media and TV shows that like to suggest that the SF stories of the past actually happened (Warehouse 13, Planetary) tend to adopt a "steampunk" look to its old tech. It's kind of hard, though, to categorize those premises as being part of our reality, but with past events that were simultaneously fantastic, and hidden from public awareness... would that be considered an alternate reality? If not, it makes those premises "hard" SF, or, at least, harder than steampunk. |
09-26-2010, 09:35 AM | #182 |
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It occurs to me: Maybe we should take the old stories set in, for instance, underwater cities on Venus, and instead of calling them Fantasy, consider them Alternative Reality, a parallel universe where Venus did not succumb to global warming, retained its water, and supported alien life.
There may be a number of old stories that could be considered this way, as well as all recent Steampunk stories. Do we need a fourth law to cover Alternate Reality SF? Last edited by Steven Lyle Jordan; 09-26-2010 at 09:38 AM. |
09-26-2010, 10:29 AM | #183 |
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Alternative or Alternate? You've used both in your post.
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09-26-2010, 01:00 PM | #184 | ||
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To successfully do that for the example "domed cities under the oceans of Venus", you would need some plausible explanation for exactly how Venus avoided the "global warming" and became simply a planet wide tropical environment under the clouds. Given what we currently surmise about the development process, that would be a neat trick. "Alternate history", presuming that some critical event had a different ending and all subsequent history was affected by it is one thing. The natural laws are still in place. "Alternate science" where the natural laws we are accustomed to aren'tn place is a rather different matter. Quote:
______ Dennis |
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09-26-2010, 01:13 PM | #185 | |
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Others can't. Jay Lake is doing a series of steampunk novels set in a clockwork universe, where the Earth is a node on a cosmic orrery, implying a cosmic instrument maker to construct it and set it in motion. The characters in his novels are well aware of the nature of their universe. These can only be called "Alternate Reality". So Steampunk straddles several sub-genres, and we may be dealing with a case of "Steampunk is what I'm pointing at when I say the words." ______ Dennis |
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09-26-2010, 03:40 PM | #186 | |
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I hadn't noticed... I suppose I was using them to mean the same thing... I should have been more specific, as I agree there is a difference.
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I think alternate realities would be included among the SF concepts that are considered part of SF tropes only because of their long-term acceptance by the genre. Since I think we need a law to include the tropes: Science Fiction includes various "special concepts" that have been accepted as SF elements, regardless of their actual likelihood or possibility of being proven, such as: Warp drives; psi powers; humanoid aliens; inter-species communications; alternate realities; parallel/alternative universes. Please to point out any I've missed. |
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09-26-2010, 04:35 PM | #187 | ||
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We can talk about the likelihood of various things. Humanoid aliens aren't all that unlikely, for example, if we assume similar settings will produce similar evolutionary results. There's a branch of theory that does make that assumption, and postulates that Earth-like worlds with life based on long-chain carbon molecules and DNA might very well produce something human-like. There's a reason humanity evolved and rose to the top of teh food chain here on Earth, and no reason why something similar shouldn't evolve under similar conditions elsewhere. The alien doesn't have to be something unlike anything we've seen to exist. ______ Dennis |
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09-26-2010, 10:33 PM | #188 | ||
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So, if we make some amendments: Science Fiction includes various "special concepts" that have been accepted as SF elements, regardless of their actual likelihood or possibility of being proven, such as: Warp drives; psi powers; inter-species communications; alternate realities; time travel. (Actually, the wording allows for some leeway in the chosen concepts, not specifically stating that they cannot be proven at all, and leaving space for other concepts to be added.) |
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10-05-2010, 10:49 AM | #189 |
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Amusing classification system invented by James Nicoll
http://groups.google.ca/group/rec.ar...3bdb1751?hl=en |
10-05-2010, 11:03 AM | #190 | |
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10-05-2010, 12:37 PM | #191 | |
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X-axis is "does the author get the science correct?" Left is "D'oh! it's all wrong" while right is "Aha! it's all correct!" Y-axis is "optimism". Bottom is "blah, the future is going to be miserable", top is "Whoo! the future is going to be lots of fun" In James Nicoll's opinion: Steven Baxter is in the D'oh-blah quadrant Larry Niven is in the D'oh-Whoo! quadrant Hal Clement is in the Aha!-Whoo! quadrant and he could not think of an author for the Aha!-blah quadrant. Last edited by nyrath; 10-05-2010 at 12:41 PM. |
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10-05-2010, 01:06 PM | #192 | |
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______ Dennis |
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10-05-2010, 03:41 PM | #193 |
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