Those "I just like the feel of a book in my hand" people - Page 4

EditorPlough · 10-05-2010, 11:15 AM

I'm a bookbinder specializing in repair/restoration of old books. I can spend weeks repairing a leather binding from the 1700's, and when I hand the customer the book, he'll always grin, open it & start reading. They don't look at what I have done. And they always say, "This is such a great book, did you read it?" I think the whole thing is visceral memories associated with reading, don't look for logic in it. That's the way I am, too!

desertblues · 10-05-2010, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EditorPlough

I'm a bookbinder specializing in repair/restoration of old books. I can spend weeks repairing a leather binding from the 1700's, and when I hand the customer the book, he'll always grin, open it & start reading. They don't look at what I have done. And they always say, "This is such a great book, did you read it?" I think the whole thing is visceral memories associated with reading, don't look for logic in it. That's the way I am, too!

I sympathize completely with you, as my job has to do with preserving 'old' paper as well. It's all in the mind; I love them both, my old paper and my Kindle.

neilmarr · 10-05-2010, 11:51 AM

***I'm a bookbinder specializing in repair/restoration of old books. I can spend weeks repairing a leather binding from the 1700's, and when I hand the customer the book, he'll always grin, open it & start reading. They don't look at what I have done. And they always say, "This is such a great book, did you read it?" I think the whole thing is visceral memories associated with reading, don't look for logic in it. That's the way I am, too!***

What a lovely job you've chosen, EP. I'm sure it's satisfying. There is true wonder in a gorgeously bound volume, lovingly produced, as there is, perhaps, in a restored Elizabethan four-poster bed or a Chippendale chair.

But you do realise the value of what riches of history and thought lie inside the magnificent casket you have crafted for a book. That is refreshing. It's also something I'd never before considered. Thanks for the new thoughts.

There is a sound case for aesthetic and artistic presentation. On the other hand, Elizabethan beds and ol' Chip's furtiture are valued for their appearance rather than their utility. You would happily relax on a modern, functional piece of furniture to admire the artisanship of the antique, rather than use the antique itself. Perhaps the same can be said of books -- some are produced for pure readability, others for the sheer, breathtaking pleasure we get from gazing at an object of beauty.

Two entirely different functions, each reflecting an aspect of art. Each appealing to a passion, each happily co-existing, each with its rightful place in our respectful admiration.

Best wishes. Neil

niksknits · 10-05-2010, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jphphotography

I was just wondering if anyone else has come across these people since they've got their kindle. Since I've got mine I've seemed to turned into a Kindle spokesman and am trying to convert friends over to ebooks. I've been reading ebooks for years now but always on tiny devices that weren't really meant to be ereaders so I never really showed them to anyone.

My sister for example is a ferocious reader and I thought for sure she'd be the perfect candidate for a Kindle. Nope. Her and a few other people I've shown say the same thing "it's neat an all but there is still something about having a physical book in your hand". Personally I think these people are crazy

I just thought I'd see what reactions other kindle owners have had when showing their reader to friends etc.

I used to think that way. But when I got my first e-reader (the sony prs-300), I quickly tossed the notion that I needed to have a "real" book in hand. I now have the prs-600 (purchased a couple of weeks ago when target had them on super-sale for $144) with a cover which makes me feel like I'm reading a "real" book when I'm holding the cover open. Maybe those people who need the feel of having a "real" book should try a reader with the cover.

dsip · 10-05-2010, 03:24 PM

You can look at your bookshelf and see the books you've read, think about them, remember things inside them, events connected to them, to reading them, connect one book to another in your mind.. a name in a list cannot do that to the same extend. Our brain is hard wired to all our senses, obviously - so having something that is 'sensable' is going to cause more mental reaction.

I love my ebook reader, but I still buy the books I like as pbooks. Even if I'm really unsure, whether I will end up reading them again any time soon. That does not change the fact that I thought the idea of ebooks was awesome ever since I first read of the technology of epaper years before the first ereader arrived (and then I imported a K1 to Europe..). They certainly have their use and are better than pbooks at a lot of things. But they don't create emotional connections to specific content, because they are, obviously, contend independent.

jphphotography · 10-05-2010, 09:52 PM

Wow this thread really took off! Lots of interesting view points, I'm really liking mobileread

For one thing everyone is well read and articulate thanks to the main subject of the site and unlike forums of other topics threads don't turn into huge arguments but rather intellectual debate.

I definitely can appreciate the old leather bound books that are as much a physical work of art as the story they contain. I'm an electronic tech by trade and always worry about how dependent we are on electronics, one commenter mentioned that ebooks last forever but from my findings that is not really true and a physical book would probably out last it. A friend of mine likes "apocalypse proof" stuff, vacuum tube based stuff etc because it really is possible that a large solar flare could knock out most if not all of our convenient gadgets.

I think there should always be hard copy backups of any literature kept somewhere. For personal use I don't have any elaborate or fancy books so my paper library is probably going to get pared down substantially. As most have pointed out it's not a one or the other situation.

I don't think my sister will come around very soon, I think its the technology that scares her off more than anything. She's not too computer savvy. As pointed out previously by one commenter E-readers are still in their infancy and I think with the new screen technologies coming out (mirasol, Pixel-Qi etc) they're going to get better and better and do more and more. As much as I like my kindle it is sort of odd in todays world that for all intents and purposes it's a single purpose device. I think with the new slates etc and reflective screens we'll get the readability of an e-reader with the multi-use of an ipad.

Just my 2¢

Greg Anos · 10-05-2010, 10:09 PM

You know, 6" BeBook/Astak may look industrial by itself, but put it in a nice leather (or vinyl cover) and suddenly it feels like a p-book when I carry it. (About the size and shape of a thin Gregg Press hardback...)

speakingtohe · 10-05-2010, 11:26 PM

I was on the bus today and an elderly gentleman (I am 60 so when I say elderly I mean well past 80) asked me what I had there.

His eyes started to glaze over until I showed him how to enlarge the text.

All of a sudden he was riveted. I need one of those he said. His only other concern was would it fit into my pocket

I got my first ereader in April and just do not do pbooks anymore.

No awkward page turns when reading one handed, no having to bookmark pages, no ketchup on the library books (an expensive habit reading library bookswhile eating

) and I can still read on the bus if I have forgotten my glasses.

I never noticed books smelling unless they smelled unpleasant. Too busy reading.

Helen

cuteseal · 10-05-2010, 11:45 PM

I think the tide is changing.

My wife is one of those "smell of paper books" people. She still hasn't quite jumped the fence yet, but she can see the benefits and agrees with them.

Same with cameras - a lot of people used to prefer the simplicity of film, and holding physical prints rather than viewing them on a computer. Also, lots of people just want a phone that just makes calls and sends messages, instead of a touchscreen phone that has apps and games.

However, as popularity and publicity of ereaders increases, I think it will become the norm in society.

neilmarr · 10-06-2010, 06:28 AM

Sorry to wander off a little into one of my chuckle moments, but when I read Jphphotographies thoughtful post about the permanence of physical books and the what-if of cosmic catastrophe destroying the entire internet infrastructure, I couldn't help but think of the more localised disaster that destroyed much of stored recorded human knowledge when arson caused the demise of the Great Library of Alexandria.

And then my mind wandered to a late friend of mine (a comedian) who told me that a pal of his was devastated when the library wing of his house was burned to the ground. "Both volumes were destroyed," my friend solemly told me. "And he'd only just finished colouring one of them."

Apologies, best wishes and thanks for a fascinating thread. Neil

Bikeridr · 10-06-2010, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilmarr

... "Both volumes were destroyed," my friend solemly told me. "And he'd only just finished colouring one of them." ...

Reminds me of a Norwegian musician of whom I attended a concert. He told his history and went through his discography.
His debut album sold in very few copies and he expressed it like this:
"I know the person who bought it, and he was very drunk at the moment of purchase.."

JeremyZ · 10-06-2010, 10:00 AM

e-book readers don't make sense for anyone but avid readers. They will never pay them off through savings or use.

But for an avid reader, the only reasons I can think of are closed-mindedness or financial reasons. (libraries are still free and used secondhand books are free or nearly free)

If you want to convert her over, gift her one or load her yours and tell her: "Give it an honest try it for two weeks." I bet she'll convert.

I just read Dragonlance Chronicles in one book. Never realized how heavy a thick paper book could get until I got a Kindle.

John1997 · 10-06-2010, 01:07 PM

I am one of the "love the feel, smell and ambience of real books." One of the joys of going to college was that the library had _real_ books. Especially the law library where almost all the books were beautifully leather bound. There was a wonderful feel compounded of the aroma and the glow of old leather. When I started practicing, the small firm I worked for also had a lovely library with leather bound books in floor to ceiling bookcases and a gorgeous mahogany table on which to spread out (bookcases and table constructed by a single grateful client, incidentally).

Now, of course, research is all done in computer databases and I carry a small library around in my JBL Lite. I appreciate the efficiency, but I miss the experience of the books. I especially miss the ability to spread a dozen books around on the table all open to some important and related issue. It was so much easier to synthesize all those related thoughts when I could just glance at different books to see how different authors had handled the same issue.

Maybe I need a dozen jbl's???

crash86 · 10-06-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyZ

I just read Dragonlance Chronicles in one book. Never realized how heavy a thick paper book could get until I got a Kindle.

One of the reasons why I love my Kindle.

ChaoZ · 10-06-2010, 02:51 PM

For me, even though I got a Kindle 3, I totally get where pbook lovers are coming from.

Typography on the Kindle is bad. Period. No exceptions. That's not even taking into account books which have obviously been OCRed with little editing. Then there are files which drift between type sizes for no apparent reason or have indents in the wrong places, hard returns where they shouldn't be etc.

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10-05-2010, 11:15 AM	#46
EditorPlough Excelsior! Posts: 14 Karma: 20000 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rifton NY Device: Kindle	I'm a bookbinder specializing in repair/restoration of old books. I can spend weeks repairing a leather binding from the 1700's, and when I hand the customer the book, he'll always grin, open it & start reading. They don't look at what I have done. And they always say, "This is such a great book, did you read it?" I think the whole thing is visceral memories associated with reading, don't look for logic in it. That's the way I am, too!

10-05-2010, 11:51 AM	#48
neilmarr neilmarr Posts: 7,216 Karma: 6000059 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Monaco-Menton, France Device: sony	*I'm a bookbinder specializing in repair/restoration of old books. I can spend weeks repairing a leather binding from the 1700's, and when I hand the customer the book, he'll always grin, open it & start reading. They don't look at what I have done. And they always say, "This is such a great book, did you read it?" I think the whole thing is visceral memories associated with reading, don't look for logic in it. That's the way I am, too!* What a lovely job you've chosen, EP. I'm sure it's satisfying. There is true wonder in a gorgeously bound volume, lovingly produced, as there is, perhaps, in a restored Elizabethan four-poster bed or a Chippendale chair. But you do realise the value of what riches of history and thought lie inside the magnificent casket you have crafted for a book. That is refreshing. It's also something I'd never before considered. Thanks for the new thoughts. There is a sound case for aesthetic and artistic presentation. On the other hand, Elizabethan beds and ol' Chip's furtiture are valued for their appearance rather than their utility. You would happily relax on a modern, functional piece of furniture to admire the artisanship of the antique, rather than use the antique itself. Perhaps the same can be said of books -- some are produced for pure readability, others for the sheer, breathtaking pleasure we get from gazing at an object of beauty. Two entirely different functions, each reflecting an aspect of art. Each appealing to a passion, each happily co-existing, each with its rightful place in our respectful admiration. Best wishes. Neil

10-05-2010, 03:24 PM	#50
dsip Connoisseur Posts: 73 Karma: 495694 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Between Devices..	You can look at your bookshelf and see the books you've read, think about them, remember things inside them, events connected to them, to reading them, connect one book to another in your mind.. a name in a list cannot do that to the same extend. Our brain is hard wired to all our senses, obviously - so having something that is 'sensable' is going to cause more mental reaction. I love my ebook reader, but I still buy the books I like as pbooks. Even if I'm really unsure, whether I will end up reading them again any time soon. That does not change the fact that I thought the idea of ebooks was awesome ever since I first read of the technology of epaper years before the first ereader arrived (and then I imported a K1 to Europe..). They certainly have their use and are better than pbooks at a lot of things. But they don't create emotional connections to specific content, because they are, obviously, contend independent.

10-05-2010, 09:52 PM	#51
jphphotography Zealot Posts: 107 Karma: 27246 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Saskatoon SK, Canada Device: Kindle 3 6" 3G + wifi, Sony PRS-300, iTouch 4G, Galaxy S Vibrant	Wow this thread really took off! Lots of interesting view points, I'm really liking mobileread For one thing everyone is well read and articulate thanks to the main subject of the site and unlike forums of other topics threads don't turn into huge arguments but rather intellectual debate. I definitely can appreciate the old leather bound books that are as much a physical work of art as the story they contain. I'm an electronic tech by trade and always worry about how dependent we are on electronics, one commenter mentioned that ebooks last forever but from my findings that is not really true and a physical book would probably out last it. A friend of mine likes "apocalypse proof" stuff, vacuum tube based stuff etc because it really is possible that a large solar flare could knock out most if not all of our convenient gadgets. I think there should always be hard copy backups of any literature kept somewhere. For personal use I don't have any elaborate or fancy books so my paper library is probably going to get pared down substantially. As most have pointed out it's not a one or the other situation. I don't think my sister will come around very soon, I think its the technology that scares her off more than anything. She's not too computer savvy. As pointed out previously by one commenter E-readers are still in their infancy and I think with the new screen technologies coming out (mirasol, Pixel-Qi etc) they're going to get better and better and do more and more. As much as I like my kindle it is sort of odd in todays world that for all intents and purposes it's a single purpose device. I think with the new slates etc and reflective screens we'll get the readability of an e-reader with the multi-use of an ipad. Just my 2¢

10-05-2010, 10:09 PM	#52
Greg Anos Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,248 Karma: 35000000 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Pocketbook	You know, 6" BeBook/Astak may look industrial by itself, but put it in a nice leather (or vinyl cover) and suddenly it feels like a p-book when I carry it. (About the size and shape of a thin Gregg Press hardback...)

10-05-2010, 11:26 PM	#53
speakingtohe Wizard Posts: 4,812 Karma: 26912940 Join Date: Apr 2010 Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet	I was on the bus today and an elderly gentleman (I am 60 so when I say elderly I mean well past 80) asked me what I had there. His eyes started to glaze over until I showed him how to enlarge the text. All of a sudden he was riveted. I need one of those he said. His only other concern was would it fit into my pocket I got my first ereader in April and just do not do pbooks anymore. No awkward page turns when reading one handed, no having to bookmark pages, no ketchup on the library books (an expensive habit reading library bookswhile eating ) and I can still read on the bus if I have forgotten my glasses. I never noticed books smelling unless they smelled unpleasant. Too busy reading. Helen

10-05-2010, 11:45 PM	#54
cuteseal Enthusiast Posts: 36 Karma: 170 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: Kindle 3	I think the tide is changing. My wife is one of those "smell of paper books" people. She still hasn't quite jumped the fence yet, but she can see the benefits and agrees with them. Same with cameras - a lot of people used to prefer the simplicity of film, and holding physical prints rather than viewing them on a computer. Also, lots of people just want a phone that just makes calls and sends messages, instead of a touchscreen phone that has apps and games. However, as popularity and publicity of ereaders increases, I think it will become the norm in society.

10-06-2010, 06:28 AM	#55
neilmarr neilmarr Posts: 7,216 Karma: 6000059 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Monaco-Menton, France Device: sony	Sorry to wander off a little into one of my chuckle moments, but when I read Jphphotographies thoughtful post about the permanence of physical books and the what-if of cosmic catastrophe destroying the entire internet infrastructure, I couldn't help but think of the more localised disaster that destroyed much of stored recorded human knowledge when arson caused the demise of the Great Library of Alexandria. And then my mind wandered to a late friend of mine (a comedian) who told me that a pal of his was devastated when the library wing of his house was burned to the ground. "Both volumes were destroyed," my friend solemly told me. "And he'd only just finished colouring one of them." Apologies, best wishes and thanks for a fascinating thread. Neil

10-06-2010, 10:00 AM	#57
JeremyZ Addict Posts: 303 Karma: 1000702 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Chicago Device: Nook ST, Kindle 2, Samsung Galaxy Stellar phone	e-book readers don't make sense for anyone but avid readers. They will never pay them off through savings or use. But for an avid reader, the only reasons I can think of are closed-mindedness or financial reasons. (libraries are still free and used secondhand books are free or nearly free) If you want to convert her over, gift her one or load her yours and tell her: "Give it an honest try it for two weeks." I bet she'll convert. I just read Dragonlance Chronicles in one book. Never realized how heavy a thick paper book could get until I got a Kindle.

10-06-2010, 01:07 PM	#58
John1997 Enthusiast Posts: 34 Karma: 80 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: Jetbook Lite	I am one of the "love the feel, smell and ambience of real books." One of the joys of going to college was that the library had _real_ books. Especially the law library where almost all the books were beautifully leather bound. There was a wonderful feel compounded of the aroma and the glow of old leather. When I started practicing, the small firm I worked for also had a lovely library with leather bound books in floor to ceiling bookcases and a gorgeous mahogany table on which to spread out (bookcases and table constructed by a single grateful client, incidentally). Now, of course, research is all done in computer databases and I carry a small library around in my JBL Lite. I appreciate the efficiency, but I miss the experience of the books. I especially miss the ability to spread a dozen books around on the table all open to some important and related issue. It was so much easier to synthesize all those related thoughts when I could just glance at different books to see how different authors had handled the same issue. Maybe I need a dozen jbl's???

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10-06-2010, 02:51 PM	#60
ChaoZ Connoisseur Posts: 94 Karma: 192 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Toronto Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Mini, Kobo Touch	For me, even though I got a Kindle 3, I totally get where pbook lovers are coming from. Typography on the Kindle is bad. Period. No exceptions. That's not even taking into account books which have obviously been OCRed with little editing. Then there are files which drift between type sizes for no apparent reason or have indents in the wrong places, hard returns where they shouldn't be etc.