Okay, Are there really any iPad alternatives? - Page 9

scottjl · 06-09-2010, 10:40 AM

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/08/s...ikely-delayed/

adam ink delayed.. possibly into 2011.. just fyi.

kennyc · 06-09-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottjl

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/08/s...ikely-delayed/

adam ink delayed.. possibly into 2011.. just fyi.

Not welcome news, but thanks for passing it along.

Bob Russell · 06-09-2010, 01:19 PM

It's hard to tell exactly what that is about. At least four things come to mind...
1) The Notion Ink folks didn't have the experience to realize all that's involved in a large scale rollout of a tablet - seems pretty reasonable to me
2) The tablet is not ready or a finished product and this is going to be vaporware for a long time.
3) NVIDIA is not ready with Tegra 2, which seems to definitely be a part of the story
4) Android is not really ready for tablets, and product designers feel pressured to wait for v2.2 or later. I believe someone well-placed said something recently about watching what happens with Android on tablets in the next six months.

Maybe we'll have to wait until v2.3 and 2011 to get a real top notch Android consumer tablet to compete well with iPad?

But netbook convertibles should also be pretty stunning by the next generation or two or three of Intel chips. Despite so many disappointments, tablets with "Win 8" may even eventually even come through as a legitimate contender for the best tablets.

xuan1982 · 06-09-2010, 01:24 PM

now 8 inch with Android 2.1,
i want to buy one from china, it needs to book order for 8 inch from this guy.

http://www.esaleschina.com/wholesale/android-tablet/

dorino · 06-09-2010, 04:09 PM

Really, I don't find the ipad that innovative, and could name a few alternatives immediately.
Obviously, the battery life is an issue with a normal tablet PC. Of course, a tablet PC is a lot more expandable, has a larger harddrive, more memory, and a full-fledge operating system.

These have also been around for a few years... If anything, the iPad's only improvement is battery life. (From what I can tell)

Joojoo is great, and meets all of OP's original requirements, aside from battery, which is estimated at 5 hours iirc.

Android tablets are coming in full swing, so there are those. I doubt we'll have a long wait, honestly.

scottjl · 06-09-2010, 04:17 PM

point to any tablet you can go out and buy right now as an alternative to an ipad that is on part with the ipad. you can't. yes, there are tons of pc tablets out there, but are they as thin? light? have an equal display? the same battery life? meet the same performance?

i'm not asking for a better device, just one that is on-par with the ipad. simple fact is, you can't. yes. companies have promised equal or better devices are coming soon but until you can run down to best buy and pick one up, it's simply talk at this point.

the joojoo? unfortunately the reviews on that are trashing it. large. unwieldy. poor battery life. poor operating system. and it isn't much more than a web-tablet. without an internet connection the joojoo is a slab of metal and glass. you can use your ipad on a plane at 30,000' with no internet, run apps, listen to music, read books, watch movies.

yes, tablets have been around for years, but it took apple to release one to kick other manufacturers in the ass an get them to start developing more than just a laptop with folded back screen. we had cell phones too before apple came to the game and look what the iphone's release did to kick-start innovation. microsoft is still playing catch-up in the phone OS game, palm couldn't compete, and RIM is floundering. google is the only company who brought forth any competition and it took them a few years to catch up and i'm glad they did, it will keep both the iOS and Android innovating instead of languishing like Windows Mobile did. i don't expect apple to sit back and relax on the iPad either. iOS will continue to develop and the hardware will continue to improve, just as the iPhone did these past 4 years.

dmaul1114 · 06-09-2010, 04:33 PM

Agreed. I will not buy an iPad, but there is not a comparable alternative out there yet.

But I'm patient and I'll wait for something with a screen big enough for 8.5x11 documents in portrait mode and a stylus based screen to mark stuff up. And it needs to come close to matching the iPad in thinness, battery life, etc. for me to buy it--so no interest in a tablet pc or slate with high price, bulky designs and short battery life.

I'm hoping it's just like the phone market. Took a while for worthwhile competitors to the iPhone to come out, but there are several now IMO. In 12-18 months I think we'll have a slew of true competitors to the iPad and hopefully I can find the big screen, stylus centric tablet that fits my specific needs.

dorino · 06-09-2010, 04:34 PM

on-par, I guess I couldn't say there are any. The iPad is on it's own level. It brings itself down in terms of hardware, and as a result, brings itself up on battery life and form factor. I also disagree that the iPhone innovated phones. Palm pilots, sony clie', those did that. The iPhone just made it sleek, modern.

The iPad hasn't kicked developers into making better devices, but, like the iPhone, have made them attempt thinner devices, modern, more usable ones...

Tablet PCs are generally thicker, and have worse battery life. They're also a hell of a lot more featureful, since they'll run an actual, full-scale operating system, as opposed to an upscaled mobile phone's OS.

scottjl · 06-09-2010, 04:50 PM

oh god. the whole "it's not a real OS" argument again. i suggest you take a look under the hood of the iOS and see that it's a unix kernel running under there. non-technical people mistakenly think the SpringBoard (the home screen) is all of the OS.

"thinner devices, modern, more usable ones".. isn't that better than what they are making today, you know the devices that are "generally thicker, and have worse battery life"?

dorino · 06-09-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottjl

oh god. the whole "it's not a real OS" argument again. i suggest you take a look under the hood of the iOS and see that it's a unix kernel running under there. non-technical people mistakenly think the SpringBoard (the home screen) is all of the OS.

"thinner devices, modern, more usable ones".. isn't that better than what they are making today, you know the devices that are "generally thicker, and have worse battery life"?

Alright, alright, excuse my OS comment, thank you. Unfortunately, I'm still not comfortable calling it a full-fledged OS being how closed off it is. Having to hack it in order to use it to it's actual capabilities is a bit depressing. I didn't say it's not real. But it is just an upscaled iPhone OS. To me, I feel like that would be like if Asus had had the eee-pc come with Windows Mobile.

And yes, that (thinner, modern, usable) is better. In terms of battery life, and form factor.

In terms of processor speed, RAM, etc, etc... Not as much.

The iPad has its own advantages. I prefer other things... But I'm not going to say that the iPad is bad. I did that immediately upon release, but after trying it out, recanted. I like it. Just not as much as I like my netbook and my dedicated e-reader. :P

scottjl · 06-09-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorino

Alright, alright, excuse my OS comment, thank you. Unfortunately, I'm still not comfortable calling it a full-fledged OS being how closed off it is. Having to hack it in order to use it to it's actual capabilities is a bit depressing. I didn't say it's not real. But it is just an upscaled iPhone OS. To me, I feel like that would be like if Asus had had the eee-pc come with Windows Mobile.

And yes, that (thinner, modern, usable) is better. In terms of battery life, and form factor.

In terms of processor speed, RAM, etc, etc... Not as much.

The iPad has its own advantages. I prefer other things... But I'm not going to say (and I haven't) that the iPad is bad. I did that immediately upon release, but after trying it out, recanted. I like it. Just not as much as I like my netbook and my dedicated e-reader. :P

you do realize that the ipad has a processor on-par with previous netbooks and even on-par with some offerings these days. offers a display that is larger than available on many netbooks, has full networking capabilities including 3g wireless. up to 64G of internal SSD storage. a touch screen, thousands of applications that can do everything from word processing, to 3d games, video and audio playback, remote control via VNC or RDP, etc. etc.

what capabilities are missing? because you don't have access to the shell prompt out of the box? can you tell me that 90% of the buyers even care about that? how many of them use the command line in windows? remember, you are technically savvy, but i am betting the majority of people who purchase the ipad don't care anything about running a command line on the ipad or on their windows/mac desktop. you may have higher technical demands from a tablet device, but apple designed a media consumption device to sell to the masses, and it's selling all right. 2,000,000 and going.

estimates have said that maybe 10% of all iphones are jailbroken. that's out of some 56milliion (according to jobs). at best some 10% of ipads might be jailbroken, that's a lot of people who find it meets their needs without hackery.

back in the 70's we said 16k of memory was a lot and who would ever need more than 64k? we did a hell of a lot in that 16k of memory from play entertaining games to word process documents. the ipad doesn't have a quad core, 2.5G processor with 16G of ram and 128G of SSD. but it doesn't need it for people to get quite a bit done with it.

dorino · 06-09-2010, 05:20 PM

It's on-par with current, low end netbooks, sure. I can get a netbook with everything better though, for less the cost. That's my point, I think. (I'm a little lost, I'm not good at debating or anything really)

And sure, the capabilities that are missing are things that not everyone will even use. In fact, I'm sure 90% of buyers don't care. Regardless, it still is incapable.

Not that it needs that capability for the mass market to enjoy it.
It does, though, for me to... And the fact is, it could be more open. It could let me go into a command prompt. It doesn't, though. That upsets me.

kjk · 06-09-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorino

And the fact is, it could be more open. It could let me go into a command prompt. It doesn't, though. That upsets me.

Why let something like that upset you?

Plenty of other hardware options out there for a command line interface.

dorino · 06-09-2010, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjk

Why let something like that upset you?

Plenty of other hardware options out there for a command line interface.

And that's why I use those, instead of the iPad.

scottjl · 06-09-2010, 05:46 PM

if you really need to access a command line interface, chances are you have the technical knowledge to jailbreak your ipad in the first place. so it's really a moot point. while it isn't officially supported by apple, neither are any of the operations you're likely to do at the unix prompt on your ipad.

yes the iOS is a closed system, but don't regard a closed system as limited either. there is very little i have found that my iPad can't do that my eeePC 1000HA can. the only obvious task is Flash media. but app-to-app comparison, there is pretty much an app for the ipad for any task i could do on my netbook.

you also have to remember, apple has never marketed this as a general-purpose computer platform, and it isn't meant to be (even though app developers have done an excellent job of turning it into one, as i pointed out). it's meant to be a media consumption device allowing you to watch video (which apple sells), listen to music (which apple sells), read books (which apple sells) and surf the web (which apple doesn't sell, lol). netbooks are meant to be small-form-factor laptops with scaled down capabilities. you're really comparing apples to tangerines. small, round, tasty, but two different things.

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06-09-2010, 10:40 AM	#121
scottjl Reader of Books Posts: 1,632 Karma: 2697 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/08/s...ikely-delayed/ adam ink delayed.. possibly into 2011.. just fyi.

06-09-2010, 01:19 PM	#123
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	It's hard to tell exactly what that is about. At least four things come to mind... 1) The Notion Ink folks didn't have the experience to realize all that's involved in a large scale rollout of a tablet - seems pretty reasonable to me 2) The tablet is not ready or a finished product and this is going to be vaporware for a long time. 3) NVIDIA is not ready with Tegra 2, which seems to definitely be a part of the story 4) Android is not really ready for tablets, and product designers feel pressured to wait for v2.2 or later. I believe someone well-placed said something recently about watching what happens with Android on tablets in the next six months. Maybe we'll have to wait until v2.3 and 2011 to get a real top notch Android consumer tablet to compete well with iPad? But netbook convertibles should also be pretty stunning by the next generation or two or three of Intel chips. Despite so many disappointments, tablets with "Win 8" may even eventually even come through as a legitimate contender for the best tablets.

06-09-2010, 01:24 PM	#124
xuan1982 Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: none	now 8 inch with Android 2.1, i want to buy one from china, it needs to book order for 8 inch from this guy. http://www.esaleschina.com/wholesale/android-tablet/

06-09-2010, 04:09 PM	#125
dorino I'm odd. Take note. Posts: 325 Karma: 779 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Montana Device: deceased PRS-600, Nook STR	Really, I don't find the ipad that innovative, and could name a few alternatives immediately. Obviously, the battery life is an issue with a normal tablet PC. Of course, a tablet PC is a lot more expandable, has a larger harddrive, more memory, and a full-fledge operating system. These have also been around for a few years... If anything, the iPad's only improvement is battery life. (From what I can tell) Joojoo is great, and meets all of OP's original requirements, aside from battery, which is estimated at 5 hours iirc. Android tablets are coming in full swing, so there are those. I doubt we'll have a long wait, honestly.

06-09-2010, 04:17 PM	#126
scottjl Reader of Books Posts: 1,632 Karma: 2697 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	point to any tablet you can go out and buy right now as an alternative to an ipad that is on part with the ipad. you can't. yes, there are tons of pc tablets out there, but are they as thin? light? have an equal display? the same battery life? meet the same performance? i'm not asking for a better device, just one that is on-par with the ipad. simple fact is, you can't. yes. companies have promised equal or better devices are coming soon but until you can run down to best buy and pick one up, it's simply talk at this point. the joojoo? unfortunately the reviews on that are trashing it. large. unwieldy. poor battery life. poor operating system. and it isn't much more than a web-tablet. without an internet connection the joojoo is a slab of metal and glass. you can use your ipad on a plane at 30,000' with no internet, run apps, listen to music, read books, watch movies. yes, tablets have been around for years, but it took apple to release one to kick other manufacturers in the ass an get them to start developing more than just a laptop with folded back screen. we had cell phones too before apple came to the game and look what the iphone's release did to kick-start innovation. microsoft is still playing catch-up in the phone OS game, palm couldn't compete, and RIM is floundering. google is the only company who brought forth any competition and it took them a few years to catch up and i'm glad they did, it will keep both the iOS and Android innovating instead of languishing like Windows Mobile did. i don't expect apple to sit back and relax on the iPad either. iOS will continue to develop and the hardware will continue to improve, just as the iPhone did these past 4 years.

06-09-2010, 04:33 PM	#127
dmaul1114 Wizard Posts: 2,300 Karma: 1121709 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle 1	Agreed. I will not buy an iPad, but there is not a comparable alternative out there yet. But I'm patient and I'll wait for something with a screen big enough for 8.5x11 documents in portrait mode and a stylus based screen to mark stuff up. And it needs to come close to matching the iPad in thinness, battery life, etc. for me to buy it--so no interest in a tablet pc or slate with high price, bulky designs and short battery life. I'm hoping it's just like the phone market. Took a while for worthwhile competitors to the iPhone to come out, but there are several now IMO. In 12-18 months I think we'll have a slew of true competitors to the iPad and hopefully I can find the big screen, stylus centric tablet that fits my specific needs.

06-09-2010, 04:34 PM	#128
dorino I'm odd. Take note. Posts: 325 Karma: 779 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Montana Device: deceased PRS-600, Nook STR	on-par, I guess I couldn't say there are any. The iPad is on it's own level. It brings itself down in terms of hardware, and as a result, brings itself up on battery life and form factor. I also disagree that the iPhone innovated phones. Palm pilots, sony clie', those did that. The iPhone just made it sleek, modern. The iPad hasn't kicked developers into making better devices, but, like the iPhone, have made them attempt thinner devices, modern, more usable ones... Tablet PCs are generally thicker, and have worse battery life. They're also a hell of a lot more featureful, since they'll run an actual, full-scale operating system, as opposed to an upscaled mobile phone's OS.

06-09-2010, 04:50 PM	#129
scottjl Reader of Books Posts: 1,632 Karma: 2697 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	oh god. the whole "it's not a real OS" argument again. i suggest you take a look under the hood of the iOS and see that it's a unix kernel running under there. non-technical people mistakenly think the SpringBoard (the home screen) is all of the OS. "thinner devices, modern, more usable ones".. isn't that better than what they are making today, you know the devices that are "generally thicker, and have worse battery life"?

06-09-2010, 05:20 PM	#132
dorino I'm odd. Take note. Posts: 325 Karma: 779 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Montana Device: deceased PRS-600, Nook STR	It's on-par with current, low end netbooks, sure. I can get a netbook with everything better though, for less the cost. That's my point, I think. (I'm a little lost, I'm not good at debating or anything really) And sure, the capabilities that are missing are things that not everyone will even use. In fact, I'm sure 90% of buyers don't care. Regardless, it still is incapable. Not that it needs that capability for the mass market to enjoy it. It does, though, for me to... And the fact is, it could be more open. It could let me go into a command prompt. It doesn't, though. That upsets me.

06-09-2010, 05:46 PM	#135
scottjl Reader of Books Posts: 1,632 Karma: 2697 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	if you really need to access a command line interface, chances are you have the technical knowledge to jailbreak your ipad in the first place. so it's really a moot point. while it isn't officially supported by apple, neither are any of the operations you're likely to do at the unix prompt on your ipad. yes the iOS is a closed system, but don't regard a closed system as limited either. there is very little i have found that my iPad can't do that my eeePC 1000HA can. the only obvious task is Flash media. but app-to-app comparison, there is pretty much an app for the ipad for any task i could do on my netbook. you also have to remember, apple has never marketed this as a general-purpose computer platform, and it isn't meant to be (even though app developers have done an excellent job of turning it into one, as i pointed out). it's meant to be a media consumption device allowing you to watch video (which apple sells), listen to music (which apple sells), read books (which apple sells) and surf the web (which apple doesn't sell, lol). netbooks are meant to be small-form-factor laptops with scaled down capabilities. you're really comparing apples to tangerines. small, round, tasty, but two different things.

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