10-13-2012, 08:18 PM | #106 | ||
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10-13-2012, 11:15 PM | #107 |
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Because it lowers the economic (& criminal) risk for the buyer. This means there will be more potential buyers and a higher potential resale price.
More potential buyers because the buyers no longer have to worry about repossession by the original buyer. Higher resale price because the price is not depressed by the possibility of having to give the property back & lose what was paid. |
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10-13-2012, 11:34 PM | #108 | |
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I also disagree with the notion that vigilantism is wrong in all circumstances. In fact, I think that a certain amount of it is necessary to sustain an orderly society. It is a mistake to turn over everything to the cops and the legal system - that sometimes just makes things worse. There is a lacuna between passivity and the law that is properly occupied by self-help. As for tampering with evidence, get real. The purchaser is not guilty of a crime. The guy who stole the bike will never get caught. I risk losing the use of my bike for some indeterminate period of time till the legal bureaucracy gets around to telling me I can have it back - unless I get a smart cop who indirectly suggests that if I file a complaint, that will happen so maybe I should be happy to have my bike back & leave it at that. Edit: that's not to say that there aren't risks involved with self-help. Obviously if you assault the buyer, there's a brand new crime independent of recovering your property. And if you enter someone's property to recover your bike, it's civil (but not criminal) trespass, so there might be some remote problem there. I think I'd risk that one. Last edited by Harmon; 10-14-2012 at 12:03 AM. |
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10-14-2012, 04:24 AM | #109 | |
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He bought the books in Thailand, which is a party to Berne (for Wiley to publish them in a non-Berne country would have been Publishing for Dummies). The case had nothing to do with Berne; it concerned the interpretation of two (apparently) conflicting provisions of the US Copyright Act (one of them a codification of the First Sale Doctrine). If upheld by the Supreme Court, the decision would apply to copyright goods produced anywhere outside the USA. It might or might not be upheld by the Supreme Court; the last time the issue was before that Court (2009), it did not finally decide the issue, but it was split 4-4. |
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10-14-2012, 04:42 AM | #110 | |
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10-14-2012, 04:58 AM | #111 | |
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It is US domestic law. It was established by a US Court decision interpreting a section of the US Copyright Act, and is now codified in another section of the US Copyright Act. |
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10-14-2012, 05:34 AM | #112 |
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Yes, that's exactly what I thought, because to the best of my knowledge there is no "first sale" right in European countries, and we are signatories to the Berne Convention. That's why I asked taustin if he'd be kind enough to point out where in the Berne Convention this right is granted because, like you, I don't believe that it is.
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10-14-2012, 05:45 AM | #113 | |
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I do believe the situation is so complicated so you cannot even guess what would happen without doing empirical studies. |
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10-14-2012, 05:52 AM | #114 |
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10-14-2012, 05:59 AM | #115 |
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10-14-2012, 07:03 AM | #116 |
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First sale doctrine does not hold for licenses so this is not a counter example of us not having first sale doctrine. But in the recent court case in EU we got the right to re-sell software. What will happen with ebooks or if that judgement cover ebooks is unclear. I assume we will get a court case for ebooks also.
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10-14-2012, 07:47 AM | #117 |
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It should be noted that the case in question deals only with the US, only with physical copyrighted objects imported into the US, and only with the question of whether the right of first sale applies to all such imported goods (regardless of where they were produced), or only to goods produced in the US, then exported, then re-imported.
Mind you, when I say "only", it has the potential to shut down all those businesses which import "grey goods" if they are subject to copyright - eg, obviously books and music, but perhaps less obviously high-class jewellery and perfumes, etc. |
10-14-2012, 10:13 AM | #118 | ||
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Which is probably why the Dell Duo I bought didn't come with a system recovery CD, so the Win7 license it came with can't functionally be resold and I can't recoup the $100 or so it added to the cost of manufacture. |
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10-14-2012, 10:25 AM | #119 | |
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Not sure if the case will make it the "Supreme" Court, but I suppose anything is possible, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19842851 But perhaps we need a case to determine what exactly a license is, and if licenses still hold any meaning. |
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10-14-2012, 11:33 AM | #120 |
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No; he's referring to a recent case where Oracle tried to stop a company reselling Oracle licences and lost. That established the principle that, within the EU, reselling software is legal.
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