I really want to get an E-Ink Reader

cerement · 04-19-2008, 10:19 PM

I really do, but of the three that I can probably get hold of the easiest (Kindle, PRS-505, and Cybook), but all of them seem to have some shortcomings ...

In other words, I *REALLY* need some help deciding ...
[and there's some strong opinions ahead]

[the iLiad is out for being too large and too expensive]

I've played with the PRS-505 in stores and the E-Ink page flash doesn't really bug me (that much). And I'm computer savvy enough that converting between the various formats doesn't faze me (and with Baen supplying the major formats anyways, I don't think it's really an issue anymore). [Actually, the only time it would crop up would be having to typographically clean up a Gutenberg text.] I've comfortably read novels on my Palm TX and I thoroughly enjoy the "taking your whole library with you" aspect of digital readers.

Kindle
It's f*ugly! I'm sorry, but it is. (In the video with Neil Gaiman, he doesn't even touch his Kindle, just leaves it on the armrest and ignores it while he talks. -- "Yeah, I like you, just don't stand near me in public.") Only comes with a single font, but at least they picked a very nice font (PMN Caecilia)

PRS-505
Very nice design, sleek, and nice button layout. Also only comes with a single font ... one of the ugliest text fonts to date. Times had its day when it was being used for newspapers and was competing against Clarendon. (From a designer standpoint, people who still use Times and Arial need to be smacked.)
Is there a way to add a better font selection to the PRS-505? I've seen links to adding Unicode support for Russian and CJK, do these techniques also work for generic Latin-1 fonts? [I would prefer not to have to resort to PDFs]

Cybook
Form factor is small, sleek, lightweight. Supports multiple fonts (I can even load on Caecilia and pretend I have a Kindle Gen2). But I'm right-handed and thus I always hold my books in my left hand. From the photos of the Cybook I've seen, it only has one primary navigation button located on the righthand side of the device and looks like it would be uncomfortable to hold lefthanded.
Are there any other nav buttons for page flipping on the Cybook? Is the Cybook comfortable to hold in the left hand and it just looks inconvenient?

Thanks for any answers and information everyone can provide. Are there any other little "shortcomings" I should be aware of? Taking into consideration my ramblings above, what are people's recommendations?

Ervserver · 04-19-2008, 10:36 PM

Get the Kindle, its a good read, who cares what it looks like.

Dylrob · 04-19-2008, 11:05 PM

Well I actually have the PRS-500, though as far as I can tell the 505 has the same issue... that is the very limited control over the font size. The reader only gives you small, medium, and large settings, and what effective font size each of these gives you is dependent on what is embedded in the file itself.

Halk · 04-20-2008, 02:51 AM

You're right about the Cybook. It's awkward to turn pages while holding it left handed. There is a row of four buttons which would make it easier, however buttons cannot be reassigned. There's a new firmware overdue, and was mention of buttons being changed, specifically the "enter" button. If that was changed to be 1 page forward then it would be a little easier reading with the left hand, ultimately though one of the 4 side buttons if assigned to page forward would be ideal, but I don't see that coming any time soon.

Aside from that the Cybook is fantastic. I have no regrets in buying mine.

Something important to remember about the font is the spacing. All of the default fonts on the Cybook (in my opinion) have too much line spacing. That's relatively easily changed - there's even a font file someone has created on these forums which to me seems right. It's not just about being able to alter the size of the font, the advantage is being able to alter everything about the font.

Megatron-UK · 04-20-2008, 04:26 AM

In regards to the Sony, when you convert/generate LRF books with Book Designer or libprs500 for the PRS-505 you can embed any font you want. (I tend to use Palotino Linotype - a very easy to read and clean looking typeface)

HarryT · 04-20-2008, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron-UK

In regards to the Sony, when you convert/generate LRF books with Book Designer or libprs500 for the PRS-505 you can embed any font you want. (I tend to use Palotino Linotype - a very easy to read and clean looking typeface)

You can do, yes, but at the expense of painfully slow page turns. The normal half second or so page turn becomes about 3 seconds with an embedded font - I find it virtually unusable.

gwynevans · 04-20-2008, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerement

Is there a way to add a better font selection to the PRS-505? I've seen links to adding Unicode support for Russian and CJK, do these techniques also work for generic Latin-1 fonts? [I would prefer not to have to resort to PDFs]

Well, the thread here does have a way of adding alternative 'embedded' fonts without flashing the device, but I went back to the default fonts as I was happy enough with the built-in "Dutch801 Rm BT Roman".

Megatron-UK · 04-20-2008, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

You can do, yes, but at the expense of painfully slow page turns. The normal half second or so page turn becomes about 3 seconds with an embedded font - I find it virtually unusable.

I can't say I find it that bad, tbh. If you are using 9 pt font (at which size something like Palotino Linotype is very readble, unlike the default serif font) then there is enough to read on a single page that a 2-3 second page turn is trivial in comparison.

HarryT · 04-20-2008, 08:14 AM

I guess it's a personal thing.

cerement · 04-20-2008, 01:32 PM

Megatron gets my hopes up and Harry dashes them right back down ;P

Anyways, does anyone have a link to a LRF book with the font embedded? I have a couple stores around here with display models that I can slip in a SD card and check out the pageflipping fairly easily.

Would I just put the files in the root directory of the SD card? Or do they need to be in a specific sub-directory?

Thanks

cmbs · 04-20-2008, 05:41 PM

Here's something rarely mentioned:

If you want to borrow library ebooks on e-ink you need a Cybook or Iliad because they are the only ones which read encrypted Mobipocket. Do I need to mention that library borrowing gives you access to lots of modern books for FREE? At some libraries there may be a yearly fee, still, less than buying each book you read. I believe ebook libraries will be a growing thing in the coming years.

If this is appealing to you, you need to forget Sony and Kindle.

Adobe pdf's can also be borrowed but to read the encrypted library type you'll need a handheld pc, not an e-ink device.

Of course, there are tens of thousands of out of copyright books for free online, and there are a growing number of newer authors publishing free online or in time limited free give-away promotions, so there are other free ebooks available.

I'm right handed and I hold the cybook in my right hand most of the time. I hold it in my left sometimes too. It's EXTREMELY light weight so even my pitiful left hand can hold it from the bottom for a long time, and turn the page left handed, although that maneuver requires more difficult holding. I have done it without too much trouble.

Cybook gives you TWELVE font sizes to choose from. That is the kind of thing that is also not much mentioned. And your font size is saved when you turn it off (I've read Sony doesn't save font size, I'm not 100% sure it's true- can someone verify?).

Drawbacks of the Cybook are the less than great library navigation if you want to carry around hundreds or thousands of books all the time, and the largest SD cards it supports is 2gb, which is less than the other readers. So if you are one wanting a massive library with you at all times, the Cybook has it's drawbacks. These things may or may not be changed with firmware updates. If you are not interested in a megalibrary, it's not a problem. If you don't mind using your computer to put only a limited amount of books on the Cybook at one time, it's not a problem. If you don't mind carrying more than one SD card, it's not a problem.

cerement · 04-21-2008, 01:35 AM

Well, I've handled the PRS-505. And then today, I created a cheesy mockup of the Kindle weighted with sewing weights to see how it looked and felt ...

... and I gave in and placed my order for a Kindle ... Amazon promises it'll be here Wednesday (no, really) ...

Deciding factors:
1) I really cannot stand Times for anything other than newsprint
2) Being able to find side and end views of the Kindle and realizing the thing is actually more ergonomic than it looks
3) A thread on Amazon asking if people were happy with their purchase with some very enthusiastic responses

... and if all else fails, my boss is an ex-Amazon employee ... I'll just yell at him ;P

And my thanks out to these forums, all of the discussions and all of the threads have really helped!

HarryT · 04-21-2008, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerement

Megatron gets my hopes up and Harry dashes them right back down ;P

Anyways, does anyone have a link to a LRF book with the font embedded? I have a couple stores around here with display models that I can slip in a SD card and check out the pageflipping fairly easily.

See:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12166

It's a sample I created to test font embedding - Book 1 of Homer's "Odyssey" in Ionic Greek, with an embedded Greek font.

Alisa · 04-21-2008, 01:09 PM

@cerement

If you don't like it, Amazon is pretty good about returns. I've been quite happy with mine, though. It's not pretty but it's much better looking in person if that helps.

Shenzhov · 04-21-2008, 05:13 PM

Glad you finally made a decision and now have a device on the way. I have a Sony 505 and I'm happy with it. Have a Kindle on order, due in this week too as we needed a 2nd device and I wanted to try something different.
Keep us posted on how you like it once you have it in hand.

04-19-2008, 10:19 PM	#1
cerement Groupie Posts: 170 Karma: 2000 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: San José, CA Device: Amazon Kindle 1, Sony PRS-300, Amazon Kindle 3	I really want to get an E-Ink Reader I really do, but of the three that I can probably get hold of the easiest (Kindle, PRS-505, and Cybook), but all of them seem to have some shortcomings ... In other words, I *REALLY* need some help deciding ... [and there's some strong opinions ahead] [the iLiad is out for being too large and too expensive] I've played with the PRS-505 in stores and the E-Ink page flash doesn't really bug me (that much). And I'm computer savvy enough that converting between the various formats doesn't faze me (and with Baen supplying the major formats anyways, I don't think it's really an issue anymore). [Actually, the only time it would crop up would be having to typographically clean up a Gutenberg text.] I've comfortably read novels on my Palm TX and I thoroughly enjoy the "taking your whole library with you" aspect of digital readers. Kindle It's fugly! I'm sorry, but it is. (In the video with Neil Gaiman, he doesn't even touch his Kindle, just leaves it on the armrest and ignores it while he talks. -- "Yeah, I like you, just don't stand near me in public.") Only comes with a single font, but at least they picked a very nice font (PMN Caecilia) PRS-505* Very nice design, sleek, and nice button layout. Also only comes with a single font ... one of the ugliest text fonts to date. Times had its day when it was being used for newspapers and was competing against Clarendon. (From a designer standpoint, people who still use Times and Arial need to be smacked.) Is there a way to add a better font selection to the PRS-505? I've seen links to adding Unicode support for Russian and CJK, do these techniques also work for generic Latin-1 fonts? [I would prefer not to have to resort to PDFs] Cybook Form factor is small, sleek, lightweight. Supports multiple fonts (I can even load on Caecilia and pretend I have a Kindle Gen2). But I'm right-handed and thus I always hold my books in my left hand. From the photos of the Cybook I've seen, it only has one primary navigation button located on the righthand side of the device and looks like it would be uncomfortable to hold lefthanded. Are there any other nav buttons for page flipping on the Cybook? Is the Cybook comfortable to hold in the left hand and it just looks inconvenient? Thanks for any answers and information everyone can provide. Are there any other little "shortcomings" I should be aware of? Taking into consideration my ramblings above, what are people's recommendations?

04-20-2008, 05:41 PM	#11
cmbs non-believer Posts: 384 Karma: 713 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: USA Device: Cybook Gen 3, JetBook Lite	Here's something rarely mentioned: If you want to borrow library ebooks on e-ink you need a Cybook or Iliad because they are the only ones which read encrypted Mobipocket. Do I need to mention that library borrowing gives you access to lots of modern books for FREE? At some libraries there may be a yearly fee, still, less than buying each book you read. I believe ebook libraries will be a growing thing in the coming years. If this is appealing to you, you need to forget Sony and Kindle. Adobe pdf's can also be borrowed but to read the encrypted library type you'll need a handheld pc, not an e-ink device. Of course, there are tens of thousands of out of copyright books for free online, and there are a growing number of newer authors publishing free online or in time limited free give-away promotions, so there are other free ebooks available. I'm right handed and I hold the cybook in my right hand most of the time. I hold it in my left sometimes too. It's EXTREMELY light weight so even my pitiful left hand can hold it from the bottom for a long time, and turn the page left handed, although that maneuver requires more difficult holding. I have done it without too much trouble. Cybook gives you TWELVE font sizes to choose from. That is the kind of thing that is also not much mentioned. And your font size is saved when you turn it off (I've read Sony doesn't save font size, I'm not 100% sure it's true- can someone verify?). Drawbacks of the Cybook are the less than great library navigation if you want to carry around hundreds or thousands of books all the time, and the largest SD cards it supports is 2gb, which is less than the other readers. So if you are one wanting a massive library with you at all times, the Cybook has it's drawbacks. These things may or may not be changed with firmware updates. If you are not interested in a megalibrary, it's not a problem. If you don't mind using your computer to put only a limited amount of books on the Cybook at one time, it's not a problem. If you don't mind carrying more than one SD card, it's not a problem. Last edited by cmbs; 04-20-2008 at 05:45 PM.

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04-19-2008, 10:36 PM	#2
Ervserver Wizard Posts: 2,624 Karma: 1008294 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Iowa, USA Device: Nook Simple Touch	Get the Kindle, its a good read, who cares what it looks like.

04-19-2008, 11:05 PM	#3
Dylrob Murderous Mustela Posts: 10,141 Karma: 47366760 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The other land of schnitzel and beer Device: iPad M1 Pro, Kindle Paperwhite	Well I actually have the PRS-500, though as far as I can tell the 505 has the same issue... that is the very limited control over the font size. The reader only gives you small, medium, and large settings, and what effective font size each of these gives you is dependent on what is embedded in the file itself.

04-20-2008, 02:51 AM	#4
Halk Fanatic Posts: 534 Karma: 469999 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Sony PRS-650 (PRS+ alpha - thanks Kartu!)	You're right about the Cybook. It's awkward to turn pages while holding it left handed. There is a row of four buttons which would make it easier, however buttons cannot be reassigned. There's a new firmware overdue, and was mention of buttons being changed, specifically the "enter" button. If that was changed to be 1 page forward then it would be a little easier reading with the left hand, ultimately though one of the 4 side buttons if assigned to page forward would be ideal, but I don't see that coming any time soon. Aside from that the Cybook is fantastic. I have no regrets in buying mine. Something important to remember about the font is the spacing. All of the default fonts on the Cybook (in my opinion) have too much line spacing. That's relatively easily changed - there's even a font file someone has created on these forums which to me seems right. It's not just about being able to alter the size of the font, the advantage is being able to alter everything about the font.

04-20-2008, 04:26 AM	#5
Megatron-UK Connoisseur Posts: 76 Karma: 22 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: uk Device: Sony PRS505	In regards to the Sony, when you convert/generate LRF books with Book Designer or libprs500 for the PRS-505 you can embed any font you want. (I tend to use Palotino Linotype - a very easy to read and clean looking typeface)

04-20-2008, 08:14 AM	#9
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I guess it's a personal thing.

04-20-2008, 01:32 PM	#10
cerement Groupie Posts: 170 Karma: 2000 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: San José, CA Device: Amazon Kindle 1, Sony PRS-300, Amazon Kindle 3	Megatron gets my hopes up and Harry dashes them right back down ;P Anyways, does anyone have a link to a LRF book with the font embedded? I have a couple stores around here with display models that I can slip in a SD card and check out the pageflipping fairly easily. Would I just put the files in the root directory of the SD card? Or do they need to be in a specific sub-directory? Thanks

04-21-2008, 01:35 AM	#12
cerement Groupie Posts: 170 Karma: 2000 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: San José, CA Device: Amazon Kindle 1, Sony PRS-300, Amazon Kindle 3	Well, I've handled the PRS-505. And then today, I created a cheesy mockup of the Kindle weighted with sewing weights to see how it looked and felt ... ... and I gave in and placed my order for a Kindle ... Amazon promises it'll be here Wednesday (no, really) ... Deciding factors: 1) I really cannot stand Times for anything other than newsprint 2) Being able to find side and end views of the Kindle and realizing the thing is actually more ergonomic than it looks 3) A thread on Amazon asking if people were happy with their purchase with some very enthusiastic responses ... and if all else fails, my boss is an ex-Amazon employee ... I'll just yell at him ;P And my thanks out to these forums, all of the discussions and all of the threads have really helped!

04-21-2008, 01:09 PM	#14
Alisa Gadget Geek Posts: 2,324 Karma: 22221 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Paperwhite, Kindle 3 (retired), Skindle 1.2 (retired)	@cerement If you don't like it, Amazon is pretty good about returns. I've been quite happy with mine, though. It's not pretty but it's much better looking in person if that helps.

04-21-2008, 05:13 PM	#15
Shenzhov Enthusiast Posts: 27 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle 2	Glad you finally made a decision and now have a device on the way. I have a Sony 505 and I'm happy with it. Have a Kindle on order, due in this week too as we needed a 2nd device and I wanted to try something different. Keep us posted on how you like it once you have it in hand.