how to share ebooks i bought - Page 4

ProfCrash · 05-21-2012, 11:55 AM

My position has nothing to do with the agreement, I have never read the silly thing. I don't have to read it to know that buying a book, stripping the DRM, and then handing it out to friends and family in that form is piracy.

If I want my friends and family to be able to read books that I have bought, I will add them to my Kindle account and we can share that way. They have access to the books in a legal fashion.

I don't need to read the Kindle agreement to know that a paperback book is a different format than an ebook. If I want a movie in Blu Ray and I own the movie as a regular DVD, I have to buy the Blu Ray DVD. If I own the paperback and I want the ebook I need to buy the ebook or scan the paperback myself. The format is different. Someone for the company scanned and tried to clean up that book and formatted it. Or someone upload the Word Document and formatted it. There is a cost associated with the act, it is not just something that happens. The author still deserves his/her royalty payment from the sale of his/her work.

It is up to each individual to decide what is right and wrong and to act on it. For me, downloading books for free that are being sold in bookstores, is piracy and that is wrong. Most of the people here who are doing this can come up with a great list of excuses but, in the end, they are simply excuses.

I am sorry that you bought a ton of books that you could not read hoping that one day you would be able to read them. That was a choice that you made. Now you have an e-reader and you can read. Buy the books you want to read, don't pirate them and justify it saying that you spent money on books that you knew you could not read at the time.

I just ignores the silliness of the argument that writers shouldn't care if people pirate their work because they are writing out of love of writing and not trying to provide for their families.

There are legitimate ways to lend books, feel free to use those. Add those folks to your account. If you are not close enough to them to add them to your account, I suggest using the library. The author gets paid and you are not breaking the law.

HarryT · 05-21-2012, 11:59 AM

Well said, Prof. I entirely share your views.

JoHunt · 05-21-2012, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

My position has nothing to do with the agreement, I have never read the silly thing. I don't have to read it to know that buying a book, stripping the DRM, and then handing it out to friends and family in that form is piracy.

When the agreement is paraded here with the warning that ebooks are for personal use only, I just thought I should point out that it is not always the case.

There's a very slippery slope here. DRM removal is encouraged (as "back ups"), but sharing a book with a relative/friend is not. As you mentioned, Amazon allows sharing accounts in order to share ebooks. Some publishers allow its books to be loaned. Ebooks are available at libraries. So obviously sharing of ebooks which are only purchased once is accepted practice.

Personally, no one gets access to my Amazon account. As far as I'm concerned, the author gets paid when I buy the book and it's my business how I decide to share with relatives/friends.

I am not downloading illegal copies of ebooks. I am purchasing them. If you equate my method of sharing with relatives/friends with piracy, so be it.

CyGuy · 05-21-2012, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joehunt

Personally, no one gets access to my Amazon account. As far as I'm concerned, the author gets paid when I buy the book and it's my business how I decide to share with relatives/friends.

I am not downloading illegal copies of ebooks. I am purchasing them. If you equate my method of sharing with relatives/friends with piracy, so be it.

This is what seems to be lost on so many people. Once you have purchased the ebook it is up to you to decide if you want to share it with a family member, it is not up to the publisher or author. Uploading it for indiscriminate downloading is another matter entirely. Personal use trumps any and all laws, EULA, TOS, etc.

Giggleton · 05-21-2012, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyGuy

This is what seems to be lost on so many people. Once you have purchased the ebook it is up to you to decide if you want to share it with a family member, it is not up to the publisher or author. Uploading it for indiscriminate downloading is another matter entirely. Personal use trumps any and all laws, EULA, TOS, etc.

Please, we are all related.

Pay per read or Freely share. Those are the options.

They can of course be combined, with the right tech...

HarryT · 05-21-2012, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyGuy

This is what seems to be lost on so many people. Once you have purchased the ebook it is up to you to decide if you want to share it with a family member, it is not up to the publisher or author. Uploading it for indiscriminate downloading is another matter entirely. Personal use trumps any and all laws, EULA, TOS, etc.

If by "share" you mean "give them a copy" then I'm sorry, but what you're describing is piracy, plain and simple. Your friend wants a copy of a book? He buys a copy. What entitles your friend to a free copy? I'm sorry, but buying a book does not give you the right to hand out copies of it to all your friends and family. What do you think gives you that right?

CyGuy · 05-21-2012, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

If by "share" you mean "give them a copy" then I'm sorry, but what you're describing is piracy, plain and simple. Your friend wants a copy of a book? He buys a copy. What entitles your friend to a free copy? I'm sorry, but buying a book does not give you the right to hand out copies of it to all your friends and family. What do you think gives you that right?

I have loaned family and friends books for many many years. The change from paper to electrons does not somehow make your rights disappear.

JoHunt · 05-21-2012, 01:48 PM

deleted

HarryT · 05-21-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyGuy

I have loaned family and friends books for many many years. The change from paper to electrons does not somehow make your rights disappear.

"Loaning" is not the same thing as "permanently giving a copy"; therein lies the difference.

whitearrow · 05-21-2012, 02:29 PM

The word "piracy" has apparently lost all meaning.

It used to mean (in the IP sense of the word) the guys who sold thousands of camcorded DVDs on the corner for a profit. Then it was people who shared via bittorrent. Now, anyone who makes one copy to give to their mom is a "pirate."

Why don't we just go back to calling it "copyright infringement," which is actually the accurate term for what we're talking about? If "evil" is a loaded word, so is "piracy." (Or at least... it used to be.)

Laridae · 05-21-2012, 02:46 PM

People, people, why don't you stop arguing with Harry? He's right, of course. Piracy is stealing.

But if you can rationalize in your own mind that it's OK, of if you just don't care, then go ahead and do it, and take your chances with the copyright police wherever you live!

You don't need Harry's permission, and don't expect him to condone your rationalization.

Either do it, or don't do it; it's up to you!

speakingtohe · 05-21-2012, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyGuy

I have loaned family and friends books for many many years. The change from paper to electrons does not somehow make your rights disappear.

Digital content does not have the same rights as a physical object. It is illegal to distribute copies of software, copies of purchased DVDs etc. Why should digital books be different.

You can legally sell or give away a physical copy of a book or a movie that you have purchased but you cannot legally make a copy of them and distribute that copy.

If you lend someone your device with the book on it you are not making a copy.

If you email someone a book you are making a copy.

If you put it on their device you are making a copy.

Deleting your own copy after the fact does not change the fact that that you have made and distributed a copy.

If the person has bought the book in an ugly edition and you give them a better edition for use on their own device, you have made a copy.

There is no provision in law for making a copy of copyright materials and lending/giving/selling them. A provision has been made to allow the sale of photocopiers etc. which gives a small sum to content owners in some countries, but this does not make copying/plagarism etc. legal.

The rights you speak of in terms of physical books have never allowed you to copy and distribute them and exist purely in your imagination.

Helen

Giggleton · 05-21-2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

If you lend someone your device with the book on it you are not making a copy.

If you email someone a book you are making a copy.

And if our devices do not exist in the physical realm (kindle apps), is allowing others to access our kindle account lending or copying? Please keep in mind that EULA are meaningless.

taming · 05-22-2012, 12:38 AM

I share my digital books in much the same way I shared my pBooks in the past. I meet with my friend, hand him or her my older Kobo device with the book on it. A few weeks later we meet-up again, and I get it back. It works quite well.

applesauce · 05-22-2012, 01:17 AM

i know changing minds are difficult but open talks are a starting point for change to be looked at. I think nobody is saying make copies of books and torrent them or share them on a forum like this or even your closest 100 friends. I feel what people are saying is the law needs changes to make it your property to give to your family and friends when you have finished with it like a paper book.

applesauce

05-21-2012, 01:48 PM	#53
JoHunt I am what I am Posts: 6,625 Karma: 62235665 Join Date: Sep 2011 Device: iPad3, Voyage	deleted Last edited by JoHunt; 05-21-2012 at 01:57 PM.

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05-21-2012, 11:55 AM	#46
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	My position has nothing to do with the agreement, I have never read the silly thing. I don't have to read it to know that buying a book, stripping the DRM, and then handing it out to friends and family in that form is piracy. If I want my friends and family to be able to read books that I have bought, I will add them to my Kindle account and we can share that way. They have access to the books in a legal fashion. I don't need to read the Kindle agreement to know that a paperback book is a different format than an ebook. If I want a movie in Blu Ray and I own the movie as a regular DVD, I have to buy the Blu Ray DVD. If I own the paperback and I want the ebook I need to buy the ebook or scan the paperback myself. The format is different. Someone for the company scanned and tried to clean up that book and formatted it. Or someone upload the Word Document and formatted it. There is a cost associated with the act, it is not just something that happens. The author still deserves his/her royalty payment from the sale of his/her work. It is up to each individual to decide what is right and wrong and to act on it. For me, downloading books for free that are being sold in bookstores, is piracy and that is wrong. Most of the people here who are doing this can come up with a great list of excuses but, in the end, they are simply excuses. I am sorry that you bought a ton of books that you could not read hoping that one day you would be able to read them. That was a choice that you made. Now you have an e-reader and you can read. Buy the books you want to read, don't pirate them and justify it saying that you spent money on books that you knew you could not read at the time. I just ignores the silliness of the argument that writers shouldn't care if people pirate their work because they are writing out of love of writing and not trying to provide for their families. There are legitimate ways to lend books, feel free to use those. Add those folks to your account. If you are not close enough to them to add them to your account, I suggest using the library. The author gets paid and you are not breaking the law.

05-21-2012, 11:59 AM	#47
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Well said, Prof. I entirely share your views.

05-21-2012, 02:29 PM	#55
whitearrow Guru Posts: 808 Karma: 2260766 Join Date: Apr 2008 Device: Kindle Oasis 2	The word "piracy" has apparently lost all meaning. It used to mean (in the IP sense of the word) the guys who sold thousands of camcorded DVDs on the corner for a profit. Then it was people who shared via bittorrent. Now, anyone who makes one copy to give to their mom is a "pirate." Why don't we just go back to calling it "copyright infringement," which is actually the accurate term for what we're talking about? If "evil" is a loaded word, so is "piracy." (Or at least... it used to be.)

05-21-2012, 02:46 PM	#56
Laridae Addict Posts: 208 Karma: 1203096 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ontario, Canada Device: Nexus 7, Blackberry PlayBook, Nexus 4, ChromeBook	People, people, why don't you stop arguing with Harry? He's right, of course. Piracy is stealing. But if you can rationalize in your own mind that it's OK, of if you just don't care, then go ahead and do it, and take your chances with the copyright police wherever you live! You don't need Harry's permission, and don't expect him to condone your rationalization. Either do it, or don't do it; it's up to you!

05-22-2012, 12:38 AM	#59
taming Trying for calm & polite Posts: 4,012 Karma: 9455193 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mostly in Canada Device: kobo original, WiFI, Touch, Glo, and Aura	I share my digital books in much the same way I shared my pBooks in the past. I meet with my friend, hand him or her my older Kobo device with the book on it. A few weeks later we meet-up again, and I get it back. It works quite well.

05-22-2012, 01:17 AM	#60
applesauce Addict Posts: 385 Karma: 3553492 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Perth Western Australia Device: kindle oasis	i know changing minds are difficult but open talks are a starting point for change to be looked at. I think nobody is saying make copies of books and torrent them or share them on a forum like this or even your closest 100 friends. I feel what people are saying is the law needs changes to make it your property to give to your family and friends when you have finished with it like a paper book. applesauce

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