how to share ebooks i bought

[Giggleton]

One sided digital license agreements are meaningless. Not just because no one ever reads them, but for the simple fact that I do not agree with anything they say, although I am still able to click the button.

You seem to be a bit confused Harry, you mention the conception of the container for ideas, meaning the method of idea transmission is irrelevant, but you then place distinctions between paper and digital.

You mention the fact that when a paper book is transferred no "extra" copy is being made, I suppose you would see no problems with the transfer of ebooks if no "extra" copy is being made? As a moderator of this forum, would you allow us to post our "used" ebooks into the mobile read library? Perhaps with a system set up to allow for one lend at a time? Perhaps an easier method would be to allow us to upload our used ebooks and then grant cloud access to the books, one user at a time? Either way no copies are made.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

I see nothing wrong in what he did. The people who gave him their copies didn't keep copies for themselves they simply gave him theirs. Just as what would happen with a paper book.

No, it's not "just the same". With a paper book, no additional copies are being made; with an eBook, they are. It's a very different thing. You can't give someone your eBooks for exactly the same reason that you can't give someone MP3 files that you've bought from iTunes - because it's a violation of copyright law.

I don't give a rat's a$$ what Amazon and all the publishers try to convince us of doing. If I have bought the book whether paper or ebook, it is mine to do as I wish.

No, it's yours to do with as the law permits. This has absolutely nothing to do with what Amazon or the publishers say; it's about what the law permits. The law does not permit you to make a copy of a book and give that copy to somebody else.

[andyh2000]

Originally Posted by HarryT

...
No, it's yours to do with as the law permits. This has absolutely nothing to do with what Amazon or the publishers say; it's about what the law permits. The law does not permit you to make a copy of a book and give that copy to somebody else.

It definitely has got something to do with the author/publisher/vendor. If they say you can copy the book and give it to someone else, then you can, and it's perfectly legal. Again, see Cory Doctorow for example (e.g. http://craphound.com/ftw/download/).

Andrew

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by andyh2000

It definitely has got something to do with the author/publisher/vendor. If they say you can copy the book and give it to someone else, then you can, and it's perfectly legal. Again, see Cory Doctorow for example (e.g. http://craphound.com/ftw/download/).

Andrew

With a Creative Commons licence, then, as you say, you are being granted permission to copy the book by the copyright holder, yes.

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You see nothing wrong with giving pirated books to people, or accepting them yourself? I'm afraid we'll have to agree to differ about that.

I see nothing wrong with the example given. Does it violate the license? Yep so what? Does it violate the letter of the law? Yep, so what? The law is unjust.

Giving someone a file and deleting your own copy at the same time fits with the spirit of the law. It is the electronic equivalent of giving someone a paperback you no longer want.

If your objection to piracy is based on ethics there's no reason at all to object to this kind of transfer of files. One book is payed for, that one book is only ever on one device. It just gets moved around.

If your objection is only that it falls afoul of some rules then I invite you to change alignment. Blind adherence to every arbitrary rule will drive you crazy, there's too damn many of them.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

If your objection to piracy is based on ethics there's no reason at all to object to this kind of transfer of files. One book is payed for, that one book is only ever on one device. It just gets moved around.

If your objection is only that it falls afoul of some rules then I invite you to change alignment. Blind adherence to every arbitrary rule will drive you crazy, there's too damn many of them.

My objection is that, even if you choose not to read the book again, you still possess it. You can simply re-download it from the bookstore's server. Choosing not to do so still doesn't change the fact that you still possess the book (or access to the book).

The "second-hand economy" really doesn't work for eBooks. The reason that second-hand books are cheap is that they degrade with repeated reading. An eBook does not. You could "hand on" your eBook to 20 people in turn, and every copy is identical to the original.

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by HarryT

My objection is that, even if you choose not to read the book again, you still possess it. You can simply re-download it from the bookstore's server. Choosing not to do so still doesn't change the fact that you still possess the book (or access to the book).

The "second-hand economy" really doesn't work for eBooks. The reason that second-hand books are cheap is that they degrade with repeated reading. An eBook does not. You could "hand on" your eBook to 20 people in turn, and every copy is identical to the original.

There are many things you could do. Most of us can break the DRM on books, I do. That gives me plenty of chances at mischief. Either the person who deleted the book from their reader will redownload, in which case ask yourself why did they delete at all? Or they won't. Neither option reflects on the person who received the file in good faith but in technical violation of a license agreement.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

There are many things you could do. Most of us can break the DRM on books, I do.

So do I, but that's very different to giving someone else a copy of the book. That's just plain piracy, unless you're doing so with the copyright holder's permission (eg under a CC licence).

Sorry, but we're going to have to agree to differ about this. I think it's wrong to give someone else a copy of a book you've bought. You obviously feel otherwise. That's your choice to make.

[dadioflex]

Originally Posted by andyh2000

Cory Doctorow (just to pick one example) has no problem with me giving copies of his ebooks to other people, and neither do his publishers. It's the authors/publishers who decide which aspects of copyright law they want to apply to their works.

Andrew

CD has no problem with you doing it, but I bet his publisher would prefer that the ebooks weren't given away. His policy was smart back when ebooks barely existed. As ebooks represent a growing percentage of new book sales he's going to lose out significantly if he keeps on doing this - and yet, it would be massively embarrassing for him to discontinue the policy. He's a smart guy so he's probably cooking up something that will let him save face AND continue to make money from his fiction.

[danskmacabre]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You can't give someone your eBooks for exactly the same reason that you can't give someone MP3 files that you've bought from iTunes - because it's a violation of copyright law.

This is being challenged though.
http://apple.mmgn.com/News/Can-you-s...iTunes-library
Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

[applesauce]

the irony of thos os I own every single book I was given in paper for,. I was just unable to read them but had continued to purchase them as they where released in hope my eye sight would improve.

I love my kindle it has allowed me to read again/ I just do not see myself as evil for what I did. I have in less than a month owning my kindle brought more than $300 worth of books and ebook readers for my husband and kids.

I do not think those who write the books lost anything.

If it does indeed make me evil I think I will have to live with that.

applesauce

[HarryT]

Using emotive words like "evil" does not usefully add to the discussion. What you are doing is very probably illegal, but if it's your choice to do it, then so be it.

[JoHunt]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Please read your Kindle License Agreement.. The section headed "Use of Digital Content" says, does it not:

"Solely for your personal ... use". ie, you can't give it to somebody else.

While you're not supposed to "give" an ebook to someone else, you can loan it (at the publisher's discretion), so the ebook is no longer for personal use only in such case.

[ProfCrash]

There are very few books that allow loaning. If that is an option, then go for it. But removing DRM and giving away copies that you make is piracy. It is no different then owning a paper copy, photo copying it, and hand out the photo copies to whoever you want. If anything, it is worse because photocopying at least cost you some money and the copy was not as nice as the original. Sending a DRM free version to someone, or downloading a free version of a book, gives you an identicle copy with no cost associated to the person who removed the DRM and posted it to to web or emailed it to you.

Piracy, is piracy, is piracy. It is illegal. You can justify it any way you want, but it is illegal.

[JoHunt]

I'm just pointing out that the Kindle License Agreement is no longer completely valid.