Endnotes by chapter or at end of book?

[MacEachaidh]

I'm working on an EPUB2 of a book that has extensive footnotes throughout, and formatting these as endnotes.

I'm tossing up as to whether to do these at the end of each chapter, or in a larger section at the end of the book. The major difference I can imagine it would make would be where the endnotes at the end of a chapter amount to several pages to swipe through (though I can put a link to the start of the next chapter), whereas endnotes at the end of a book would mean pages a reader wouldn't have to visit unless they wanted to.

My inclination is to do a full "chapter" of endnotes at the end of the book, but I'm curious whether people here have observations they can make, especially of things I may not have thought of. I'd appreciate hearing any ideas.

(p.s. I'm quite comfortable in the coding of these, so I don't need help in how to achieve that. I'm curious if there are compelling reasons for jumping one way rather than the other.)

[BobC]

You might want to consider the issue of how an e-reader handles the display of foot/endnotes. If the notes are in a separate file at the end of the book then (depending on the actual reader) it might be necessary for the reader to close the file being read in order to open and display content from the endnote file.

Some readers for instance are capable of displaying footnotes (i.e. within the same file as the referring note) as a pop-up but endnotes (separate file) have to be displayed by jumping to the file that contains them and displaying that page.

The extra processing involved in opening an additional file each time a note is viewed could even affect battery capacity.

My preference now is for "footnotes" rather than endnotes.

I just downloaded a book where each note was in its own file at the end - this seems like taking things to the extreme.

The issue of having to jump over end of chapter notes is, of course, a personal preference and may be influenced by just how many notes per chapter you are dealing with, not a big issue with a couple of notes but annoying when you have a chapter with 40 or more notes.

BobC

[Jellby]

Until showing notes as popups (and removing them from the normal flow) becomes a widespread feature (read: is supported by my reader of choice), I'll prefer endnotes. Notes at the end of each chapter are also annoying if one wants to page back from the start of one chapter to end of the previous one. If there are many notes, split them by chapter, but put them all at the end of the book.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by Jellby

Until showing notes as popups (and removing them from the normal flow) becomes a widespread feature (read: is supported by my reader of choice), I'll prefer endnotes. Notes at the end of each chapter are also annoying if one wants to page back from the start of one chapter to end of the previous one. If there are many notes, split them by chapter, but put them all at the end of the book.

As a reader I like to have them at the end of the book in one or more separate xhtml files so that I can easily copy them into a separate book and read text and notes side-by-side on two readers (tablet and phone).

I often photocopy the footnotes from paper books, with ebooks I've even printed them. If a book has a lot of maps at the front, I sometimes break them out and put them in a CBZ.

IMO - the assumption that reader only wants to see one footnote in isolation of all other footnotes is misguided. If a paragraph in the body of the work has several footnotes, I like to be able to see all of them - at least.

One day the ebook industry might unshackle itself from the bound paper page linear paradigm. But probably not in my lifetime, if how long it took to get from Bacon's flapping wings (late 13th c) to Langley's machines (late 19th c) is any guide

BR

[fbrzvnrnd]

Usually I prefer to put the notes at the end of a chapter: older ebook readers are faster jumping inside a pre-paginated chapter (or: slower when all the notes of all chapters are all in a single file that the ebook reader has to load everytime the human reader touch the note number).
We also experiment some ebooks with notes handled as floating box, or other ebooks with no notes, but hypertext links to the content of the reference cited in note.

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

I'm working on an EPUB2 of a book that has extensive footnotes throughout, and formatting these as endnotes.

You don't have to restrict yourself to epub2 books, because it's pretty easy to create epub2 compatible epub3 books with Sigil and the epub3 output plugin.

Also if you use epub3 footnote markup, you'll future-proof your book and most epub3 apps will display them as popup footnotes.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

You don't have to restrict yourself to epub2 books, because it's pretty easy to create epub2 compatible epub3 books with Sigil and the epub3 output plugin.

Also if you use epub3 footnote markup, you'll future-proof your book and most epub3 apps will display them as popup footnotes.

But that does nothing to help the here and now. ePub 3 is not what's being used. So go with what works for ePub 2 because that's what's being used.

[Turtle91]

Jon, despite your aversion to anything ePub3, it is becoming more and more common/accepted. I am continuing to find more retail ebooks that have ePub3 markup than don't.

Future proofing your book is just plain smart. Why create a vanilla ePub2 when you can add a little different markup which allows your books to take advantage of the advances in ePub3 - and still be read on both ePub2 and 3 devices/apps?

[Notjohn]

As a reader I like to have them at the end of the book in one or more separate xhtml files so that I can easily copy them into a separate book and read text and notes side-by-side on two readers (tablet and phone).

I often photocopy the footnotes from paper books, with ebooks I've even printed them.

Wow. I love reading the notes (provided the author has put in some gems and not merely citations, though if I'm particularly interested in a subject I will read citations too). But that's a level of devotion I've not yet reached.

In a print edition, which I favor for serious books, I read with a spare finger or a Post-it note for easy navigation to the notes. In e-books, I mostly ignore them, or at most glance over a few pages of them from time to time.

And in writing a book, I take particular care to make the notes section a goldmine of useful nuggets or just plain glitter.

As for FOOTNOTES, I no longer use them in the print edition. I either work the information into the text or banish it to the back to enrich the other notes. They're usually self-indulgent anyhow.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Jon, despite your aversion to anything ePub3, it is becoming more and more common/accepted. I am continuing to find more retail ebooks that have ePub3 markup than don't.

Future proofing your book is just plain smart. Why create a vanilla ePub2 when you can add a little different markup which allows your books to take advantage of the advances in ePub3 - and still be read on both ePub2 and 3 devices/apps?

Because if you do more to your ePub to make it even more ePub 3 than the publishers are doing now, you very well could end up with an ePub that won't work well with older versions of ADE. A lot of Readers still in use have older versions ADE and they very well may not handle these sorts of things such as trying to make footnotes into popup footnotes.

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

A lot of Readers still in use have older versions ADE and they very well may not handle these sorts of things such as trying to make footnotes into popup footnotes.

Had you actually tested the sample file that I linked to, you'd found out that it actually worked fine with most older ADE versions.
You really might want to refrain yourself from posting about technical matters that you don't fully understand.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

Had you actually tested the sample file that I linked to, you'd found out that it actually worked fine with most older ADE versions.
You really might want to refrain yourself from posting about technical matters that you don't fully understand.

As you've said...

ADE: only footnotes 2, 3, 4 and 5 work in ADE 1.7-4.0

So how do all the footnotes work when even you've said they don't all work?

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So how do all the footnotes work when even you've said they don't all work?

Again, had you looked at the test epub and carefully read my post, you would have noticed that I used two different kinds of epub3 footnote markup and the second type worked with all ADE versions.

[Turtle91]

Besides, the topic is future proofing your books - ie making sure they can be read on future devices that use ePub3. We should never disregard innovation just because there are some people living in the past- can you imagine a world with no cars because the gas hose wouldn't fill up the horse?!?

The goal is to allow the use of new technology/techniques - while still letting the older devices function... even if that functionality is extremely limited when compared to the newer model!

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by fbrzvnrnd

Usually I prefer to put the notes at the end of a chapter: older ebook readers are faster jumping inside a pre-paginated chapter

This is the method I prefer as well. Then the entirety of each chapter is in its own nice little HTML page. Makes it easy to copy/paste elsewhere (for example, as an article on a website, or in a blog/forum post, [...]).