Gen 3 Launch Delayed to October

[Alisa]

I'm guessing the firmware isn't coming out because it still has some major showstopping bugs. Getting something to work in a demo isn't the same as having code you can give to a user.

[NatCh]

Point.

But if anything, that makes the situation worse from NAEB's perspective, rather than better, especially if Bookeen isn't explaining the delays (which it doesn't sound like they're doing very effectively).

[Alisa]

In my experience that's a common mistake the marketeers make. They think the customer will have a lower opinion of your product if you just level with them than if you let them sit, stew, and imagine the worst.

[roncri]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Please, you tell me. I'd really like to know.

Derek

Ok you asked for it. First let me say that I truly believe that the NAEB board is trying their best, but yes, I have some issues.

1. I've asked before but never really got an answer. Who on the board has experience dealing with an OEM in matters like this? I have, and frankly it's a PITA. You have to have very detailed contracts that spell out both milestones and penalties for missing those milestones. You may not get your product any sooner but the OEM's milestone estimates become a lot more accurate.

2. The decision to keep this a "Family Business" and only look for funding with the Barflies. 1.5-2.0 million in financing would have let you place an order for at least 5,000 units and would have given you a lot more leverage with the OEM.

I have no problem with what NAEB is trying to accomplish or their dedication. I do have problems with some of their decisions and the consequences that came out of them.

[hello]

or shipped the sample out with it in the first place, NAEB wouldn't be forced to decide whether to review what they've finally gotten

well i think naeb cant distance themselves from the unproffessionalism that easy. its all about how you think about treating your customer as said above here. obviously naeb wanted to put out a sales letter instead of a review. thats not what people expect as said before. people expect the truth and nothing more. naeb could have written about that a long time ago to stand behind their own effort. if they did. but its better to realize a bit late it works this way than not to realize it at all. looking forward to the review but would appreciate you 'stick your hand in your own buzem' as well as a local saying goes. not just for speaking frustrations, but also for being a part of their existence. and for your customers it would be best as well by the way if you display some form of affection and/or care for your supplier regardless how low your expectations are.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by roncri

Ok you asked for it. First let me say that I truly believe that the NAEB board is trying their best, but yes, I have some issues.

1. I've asked before but never really got an answer. Who on the board has experience dealing with an OEM in matters like this? I have, and frankly it's a PITA. You have to have very detailed contracts that spell out both milestones and penalties for missing those milestones. You may not get your product any sooner but the OEM's milestone estimates become a lot more accurate.

Answer: *NONE* of us. Of course, had someone - such as yourself - offered to pony up the same share of startup money as the rest of us did, you too could have been on the NAEB board. Where were you, hmmm...? Funny, but your comments strike me as Tuesday-Morning quarterbacking - from the safety and comfort of your Barcalounger.

2. The decision to keep this a "Family Business" and only look for funding with the Barflies. 1.5-2.0 million in financing would have let you place an order for at least 5,000 units and would have given you a lot more leverage with the OEM.

Answer: We *didn't* try to keep this a 'family business'. But what we *did* look into was the process of outside funding. Guess what? We're too small for the V-Caps and too niche-market. And raising the money by selling shares or bonds - weeeeell... That was out of the question as well. That left deep-pocket relatives - of which those of us who *DID* chip in to form NAEB, didn't have. Again. Lot's of Tuesday-Morning quarterbacking. Man, that Barcalounger must be *VERY* comfortable.

I have no problem with what NAEB is trying to accomplish or their dedication. I do have problems with some of their decisions and the consequences that came out of them.

Thanks for the 'after-the-horse-has-escaped' barn-door closing. You have a problem with our decisions? Why didn't you join NAEB and offer it earlier?

Derek

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by Alisa

I'm guessing the firmware isn't coming out because it still has some major showstopping bugs. Getting something to work in a demo isn't the same as having code you can give to a user.

So very true. And we at NAEB have queried them on this, but to be honest, we've also sat back and waited for the followthrough. It's not here. So we are going to go ahead and review what we have. The bad with the good.

Derek

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by Alisa

In my experience that's a common mistake the marketeers make. They think the customer will have a lower opinion of your product if you just level with them than if you let them sit, stew, and imagine the worst.

Geez! You think?!? Alisa, *NONE* of us at NAEB got these engineering samples for free! In fact, we paid far *MORE* for each unit than what we hope to pay for the production units! And yet we're not getting the support we believe we deserve for serving as beta-test guinea-pigs - or at least that's *MY* humble opinion. So if you think you're sitting there stewing and imagining the worst, what do you think I'm doing?

I can guarantee I'm not lazing around, whistling 'Dixie'.

Derek

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by hello

well i think naeb cant distanc e themselves from the unproffessionalism tha t easy. its all about how you think about treating your customer as said above here. obviously naeb wanted to put out a sales letter instead of a review. thats not what people expect as said before. people expect the truth and nothing more. naeb could have written about that a long time ago to stand behind their own effort. if they did. but its better to realize a bit late it works this way than not to realize it at all. looking forward to the review but would appreciate you 'stick your hand in your own buzem' as well as a local saying goes. not just for speaking frustrations, but also for being a part of their existence. and for your customers it would be best as well by the way if you display some form of affection and/or care for your supplier regardless how low your expectations are.

Hello,

Give it a break! Bookeen has known for some time that any review we posted would be scrupulously fair. But we have felt for some time that it would not be fair to Bookeen to make this review on what was *clearly* early beta-phase firmware. So we chose to hold off. If you don't like it, tough, but don't go telling the world we wanted to do nothing but write a Bookeen-favorable 'sales letter' when you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

And I don't have a clue how to read the local saying 'stick your hand in your own buzem' (bosom (sp?)). As for the rest of your post, are you urging us to be loyal to Bookeen even to the point of staying on a sinking ship(that appears to be the message you're sending) or that we should 'rat out' the current problems in order to appease the madding crowd surging around us demanding answers? Either version is inappropriate. For one thing, we're *NOT* part of Bookeen, so our loyalty has to remain with those who we hope will become our customers. For another, despite *real* problems with overall functionality of the firmware version we have, the Bookeen Cybook Gen3 - if they put in all the features they are claiming - will be a serious contender on the eInk market. Should we *not* acknowledge this and just cast aspersions wildly? How would that serve those who want a decent eInk reader which has Mobipocket support? And there are those, you know.

Yes, I'm getting frustrated. Yes, I have *much* I can't say because I signed an NDA. Yes, I'm caught between the proverbial 'rock and hard place' and your demands are not helping resolve the issues I face.

Back OFF!!!

Derek

[Alisa]

Delphi-
I hope you can try not to let us madding crowds get to you. I'm sure you're feeling a lot of pressure right now but there are plenty of us (I suspect most Mobilereaders) who understand that you're in a difficult spot and that you and the rest of NAEB have undertaken a new and risky endeavor for the benefit of this community. I'm not surprised that you've hit some of the bumps that are common in the hardware industry. It's a new process for you guys and you're not going into it with a lot of financial muscle behind you. I for one am still interested to see how this product turns out and while I eagerly await your review I certainly don't want to make you feel pressured to give us answers you can't give. I don't want Bookeen to send you code when it's not ready, either. I hope they get it out soon for all of your sakes but I also know how easy it is to point fingers and pass judgment on what people should do. It's a different matter when you're the one trying to actually produce and have to deal with all the crunchy details.

I also hope people will keep trying to be civil and bear in mind that they're talking to actual human beings here.

[JSWolf]

Derek, the problem we have here is that people want a new reader that uses the Vizplex screen. We have the Sony PRS505 now out and shipping. And thw Cybook Gen3 not out and not shipping. It's hard to decide to wait or not to wait especially sice what they see from Bookeen is not good at the moment. They seen Bookeen not getting you the latest firmware and they also see delay after delay and it's not easy when you are dealing with $300-$350 and want to make a purchase like now. I know this is not your fault and you are trying to do what you can. But the NDA may be part of the problem. If people would be able to know what is in store, they may be willing to wait and see what happens if it's not happening too late. Bookeen needs to let more info out to the public or the public may turn to Sony. I hate to say this, but unless Bookeen is more forth coming, they may be in trouble.

[Alisa]

And lets not forget the Amazon launch. If Amazon has a strong showing and is using .mobi that can be really good for the Cybook if the quality/feature/price balance stacks up favorably to the Kindle. However, if the impression is that the quality and support aren't there or if it's not going to available pretty soon people might stop considering Cybook in the equation. Then it becomes a Sony + Connect vs. Kindle + Amazon decision for most folks.

I'm one of those people who has been chomping at the bit for my first reader. My smartphone doesn't cut it. I want to pull the trigger on this soon. I know I don't NEED to but I think you're alluding to a pretty strong momentum that a lot of us are feeling right now pulling us along. I could wait for a few months. I could wait for the new HanLins. I could wait a long time. But I've got an itchy trigger finger right now.

[JSWolf]

Alisa, you are right about the Kindle. I totally left it out of my post.

As far as the Hanlin V3 goes, I really don't see it in the running. It uses WOL format and has no real support in terms of getting content onto it.

[Alisa]

I'd need to see more movement on the HanLin to be interested. I like the touchscreen thing but I'd need more formats and better performance to be serious about them.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Derek, the problem we have here is that people want a new reader that uses the Vizplex screen. We have the Sony PRS505 now out and shipping. And thw Cybook Gen3 not out and not shipping. It's hard to decide to wait or not to wait especially sice what they see from Bookeen is not good at the moment. They seen Bookeen not getting you the latest firmware and they also see delay after delay and it's not easy when you are dealing with $300-$350 and want to make a purchase like now. I know this is not your fault and you are trying to do what you can. But the NDA may be part of the problem. If people would be able to know what is in store, they may be willing to wait and see what happens if it's not happening too late. Bookeen needs to let more info out to the public or the public may turn to Sony. I hate to say this, but unless Bookeen is more forth coming, they may be in trouble.

You're preaching to the choir here, Brother Wolf, preaching to the choir. The fact remains that if I could not expect to see improvements that are supposed to be in the works, if all I could expect were the firmware *as it exists on my unit*, I'd be giving a thumbs-down. But I *do* know that sometime - and I don't know how soon - these firmware improvements will be made. So do I keep holding out for production-release firmware, do I shuck it all and say "I'm outta here" or do I give some decent marks and some bad ones and hope that a 'preliminary' review doesn't drive customers away? Or am I being too harsh because of my level of frustration? Should I take that into account? Should everyone here on MR? These questions and thoughts have me sleepless and, I will admit, indecisive at the moment.

As I have said, there's a lot I'm not at liberty to share, and more that I don't want to share because I believe (or hope, as some may say) the situation may change quite soon.

What I don't need is so much second-guessing about my motives when the second-guessers are *NOT* aware of all that's going on.

Derek