Kindle offers remote kill switch for text-to-speech function? - Page 2

kamm · 05-14-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

The easiest way to implement a "remote kill" is for Amazon to redownload the ebook with the TTS flag record included in the metadata. I have never heard of Amazon doing this, and I have heard of cases where an author updated an ebook and Amazon told them they could not push the corrected ebook to existing owners.

And even then if you have a backup of this "updated" ebook, you can disconnect and restore it via USB.

This makes little sense to me though I must admit the aaverage brain capacity of US corporations is so low nowadays - the "greed" area rules everything -that I can imagine any sort of idiotic step like this.

wallcraft · 05-14-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamm

And even then if you have a backup of this "updated" ebook, you can disconnect and restore it via USB.

Yes, or just delete the TTS flag which is not encrypted and can be removed without decrypting the ebook.

I suppose that deleting the TTS flag might still be “circumvention” as far as the DMCA is concerned, but Amazon really has not tried very hard to enforce TTS disabling. There is also currently an explicit anti-circumvention exemption for TTS in ebooks, but it is so poorly written that it is difficult to tell if it applies to Kindle ebooks.

JSWolf · 05-14-2009, 01:29 PM

What I get out of that is the more eBooks sold by Amazon that have TTS disabled, the more eBooks we can legally strip the DRM from.

Barcey · 05-14-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProDigit

What's wrong with the device's ability to read text aloud?
Did I miss something?

Apparently Author's were bestowed "Audio Rights". I naively thought they only had Copyright related to the approved audio performance of their work but they were obviously granted "Audio Rights" because publishers have been writing it into legal contracts.

My understanding is when you purchase an electronic book you have purchased the rights for the hardware/software to render the text into a presentation layer that light waves can bounce off of and be captured by your eyes. You didn't purchase the rights for the hardware/software to render the text into a presentation layer where audio waves bounce into your ears. This must be in the fine print of the contract when you click on the "Buy" button because I don't remember reading it.

I'm not sure if the "Audio Right" is related to the frequency of the wave forms involved or if it's because they're being captured by ear drums instead of retinas. Probably a combination of both. Regardless these differences are apparently worth tons of money and there will be endless court battles.

It was not just myself that was confused about all this. Amazon apparently didn't know this when they added text to speech functionality to the Kindle.

bhartman36 · 05-14-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What I get out of that is the more eBooks sold by Amazon that have TTS disabled, the more eBooks we can legally strip the DRM from.

I'm not sure that's right. From the previous posts, it seems that the TTS switch can be removed without affecting the DRM, so there isn't that reason to remove the DRM itself. The only (potentially) legitimate reason to remove DRM from an ebook is space shifting (i.e., you want to be able to read the book you bought on another device). I'm not a lawyer, but the argument was used successfully by Diamond Multimedia to defend the Rio MP3 player. In that case, the issue hinged on the fact that the electronic files were being made available for personal use.

DaleDe · 05-14-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhartman36

I'm not sure that's right. From the previous posts, it seems that the TTS switch can be removed without affecting the DRM, so there isn't that reason to remove the DRM itself. The only (potentially) legitimate reason to remove DRM from an ebook is space shifting (i.e., you want to be able to read the book you bought on another device). I'm not a lawyer, but the argument was used successfully by Diamond Multimedia to defend the Rio MP3 player. In that case, the issue hinged on the fact that the electronic files were being made available for personal use.

Jon believes the exemption intended for blind automatically extends to everyone in the USA. I doubt his opinion would stand up in court but he expresses it often enough to make it seem true. I am sure I have read it at least 100 times now.

Dale

Alisa · 05-14-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProDigit

I think a device's ability to read text is nothing like an audio book.
Text read by a computer still has errors, doesn't sound as good as a real person, and can't be applied to books with images, mathemathical formula's, so is restricted in many ways.

I would say there's no valid ground to disable the speech function off kindles, as you could download an ebook at home, and use a L&H speech decoder, or whatever text to speach decoder for free, and listen to the book that way.

The technology will improve. I think the Author's Guild decided it was best to move to protect these rights now because some day TTS technology could be a real competitor for a licensed audio book. I can see their point but I don't like it. As for using a speech decoder on a PC, would you be able to that with a DRMed book without removing the DRM? If you keep within Amazon's ToS, you wouldn't be able to read a Kindle book on your PC at all.

Jellby · 05-15-2009, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alisa

The technology will improve. I think the Author's Guild decided it was best to move to protect these rights now because some day TTS technology could be a real competitor for a licensed audio book.

That day should mean the death of "licensed audio books", not the artificial blocking of TTS technology.

HarryT · 05-15-2009, 04:49 AM

That's about as likely as "real" actors being rendered obsolete by CGI

. Really, one has to wonder if these "prophets of doom" have ever actually listened to a decent audiobook. A good one is a "performance" in every sense of the word - which is why they are generally done by actors. It's certainly not someone just sitting down and reading the book out loud as you or I might do.

GeoffC · 05-15-2009, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alisa

The technology will improve. I think the Author's Guild decided it was best to move to protect these rights now because some day TTS technology could be a real competitor for a licensed audio book. I can see their point but I don't like it. As for using a speech decoder on a PC, would you be able to that with a DRMed book without removing the DRM? If you keep within Amazon's ToS, you wouldn't be able to read a Kindle book on your PC at all.

I would think it highly unlikely that TTS could become a real competitor for the audio alternative - at least in our lifetimes, and those of our bairns ....

zadriel · 05-15-2009, 09:21 AM

Thanks to those who've explained how to regain TTS on amazon books. My question is how do we do it on those topaz books? Hackers are you guys? Topaz is a nasty way to take away tts, and I've got a few books in that format.

zadriel · 05-15-2009, 09:21 AM

Feel free to PM me the answers. I'm composing a tutorial to be hosted elsewhere for folks.

wallcraft · 05-15-2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zadriel

My question is how do we do it on those topaz books?

There is no way to tell without an example of a TOPAZ ebook with TTS disabled. Can you point to one on Amazon? In the case of AZW, the sample versions also apparently have TTS disabled. Let me know if this is the case for TOPAZ.

Daithi · 05-15-2009, 10:14 AM

Who's "right" is it?

Author/Publisher: Their position seems to be that a book being read by anyone other than the purchaser is a performance. Therefore they retain the "right" to this form of their intelectual property. More to the point, they believe a machine produced by a 3rd party that is sold to the public and that reads their book is conducting a public performance.

Consumer: Their position is that they have the right to read their book outloud, they can also have someone else of their choosing read the book to them, and that this "someone else" can include a machine. The consumer believes this is their right as long as it is for private use.

Amazon: Their position is that copyright laws may favor the the Author/Publisher or it may favor the Consumer, but DMCA laws make both of these positions mute. They believe they are within their right under DMCA to side with the Author/Publisher and disable TTS and there is nothing the consumer can do about it.

JSWolf: His position is that the DMCA has a provision that allows the removal of DRM if the DRM is preventing the handicapped from accessing the book. This exception does not specify that it is limited to only the handicapped, so Jon believes it applies to everyone.

DaleDe: His position is that JSWolf is nuts.

GeoffC · 05-15-2009, 10:21 AM

We could do without the personal attacks ....

05-15-2009, 10:14 AM	#29
Daithi Publishers are evil! Posts: 2,418 Karma: 36205264 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Rhode Island Device: Various Kindles	Who's "right" is it? Author/Publisher: Their position seems to be that a book being read by anyone other than the purchaser is a performance. Therefore they retain the "right" to this form of their intelectual property. More to the point, they believe a machine produced by a 3rd party that is sold to the public and that reads their book is conducting a public performance. Consumer: Their position is that they have the right to read their book outloud, they can also have someone else of their choosing read the book to them, and that this "someone else" can include a machine. The consumer believes this is their right as long as it is for private use. Amazon: Their position is that copyright laws may favor the the Author/Publisher or it may favor the Consumer, but DMCA laws make both of these positions mute. They believe they are within their right under DMCA to side with the Author/Publisher and disable TTS and there is nothing the consumer can do about it. JSWolf: His position is that the DMCA has a provision that allows the removal of DRM if the DRM is preventing the handicapped from accessing the book. This exception does not specify that it is limited to only the handicapped, so Jon believes it applies to everyone. DaleDe: His position is that JSWolf is nuts. Last edited by Daithi; 05-15-2009 at 10:16 AM.

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05-14-2009, 01:29 PM	#18
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,966 Karma: 128903250 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	What I get out of that is the more eBooks sold by Amazon that have TTS disabled, the more eBooks we can legally strip the DRM from.

05-15-2009, 04:49 AM	#24
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	That's about as likely as "real" actors being rendered obsolete by CGI . Really, one has to wonder if these "prophets of doom" have ever actually listened to a decent audiobook. A good one is a "performance" in every sense of the word - which is why they are generally done by actors. It's certainly not someone just sitting down and reading the book out loud as you or I might do.

05-15-2009, 09:21 AM	#26
zadriel Member Posts: 14 Karma: 30 Join Date: Apr 2009 Device: kindle 2	Thanks to those who've explained how to regain TTS on amazon books. My question is how do we do it on those topaz books? Hackers are you guys? Topaz is a nasty way to take away tts, and I've got a few books in that format.

05-15-2009, 10:21 AM	#30
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,600 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	We could do without the personal attacks ....

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