Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Readers > Amazon Kindle

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-04-2012, 11:30 AM   #16
frostschutz
Linux User
frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
frostschutz's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,279
Karma: 6123806
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Device: none
For a crispness test, you could try a test image like this http://www.musigma.nl/download/testp...n_768x1024.gif ( originally posted here https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=23 )

You should be able to make out the individual vertical/horizontal lines, the circles, and the grid around the circles, all 1 pixel wide on a 768x1024 display.

That is, unless the Kindle doesn't display images full screen. If there's a status bar or something you'll have to crop the image by whatever many pixels the Kindle wastes on that.
frostschutz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 11:44 AM   #17
Dc5e
Member
Dc5e herds cats with both ease and graceDc5e herds cats with both ease and graceDc5e herds cats with both ease and graceDc5e herds cats with both ease and graceDc5e herds cats with both ease and graceDc5e herds cats with both ease and graceDc5e herds cats with both ease and graceDc5e herds cats with both ease and graceDc5e herds cats with both ease and graceDc5e herds cats with both ease and graceDc5e herds cats with both ease and grace
 
Posts: 20
Karma: 43546
Join Date: Oct 2012
Device: Kindle Paperwhite and Kindle 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by frostschutz View Post
For a crispness test, you could try a test image like this http://www.musigma.nl/download/testp...n_768x1024.gif ( originally posted here https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=23 )

You should be able to make out the individual vertical/horizontal lines, the circles, and the grid around the circles, all 1 pixel wide on a 768x1024 display.

That is, unless the Kindle doesn't display images full screen. If there's a status bar or something you'll have to crop the image by whatever many pixels the Kindle wastes on that.
The 758x1024 looks fine and all the lines are distinguishable. I think one of differences is that the PW's surface is more matte than the Kindle 3's (I don't have a Touch so I don't know if that's any different). Matte surfaces reduce sharpness. If you also look very closely at the screen, you can also see that it seems to be more textured (probably from the matte surface or the nanoprinting).
Dc5e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 11:45 AM   #18
TXCiclista
Member
TXCiclista began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 14
Karma: 10
Join Date: Oct 2012
Device: Kindle (Keyboard or Paperwhite, unsure)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck_in_Japan View Post
Pictures or it didn't happen.
Fair point, though made in a somewhat juvenile fashion.

Here's a shot that I' ve cropped to place PW and K3 text side by side (OK, really top-and-bottom). Top is PW and bottom is K3. This is actually an interesting comparison. Looking at "Red Book" it seems obvious that the PW (top) has the better font. It's smoother and it's clear there are more "pixels" involved. However, the K3 seems (to me) to win on crispness. But perhaps there's an explanation in that the K3 font is actually the cruder of the two, and so just appears to be crisper because it's just not as refined and smooth a font? I wonder if this is akin to lower-DPI LCDs that can appear to have sharper text because they can't smooth the font as well. While the higher-DPI LCD actually shows text better, it appears to be softer because of better smoothing.


Last edited by TXCiclista; 10-04-2012 at 11:54 AM.
TXCiclista is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 12:26 PM   #19
TXCiclista
Member
TXCiclista began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 14
Karma: 10
Join Date: Oct 2012
Device: Kindle (Keyboard or Paperwhite, unsure)
OK, here's a cut & paste from my Amazon.com Discussions thread on the same topic:

OK, here we go. I went ahead and pulled out (almost) all the stops. This is a large file (~65Mb) that I kept at full resolution. I've color-balanced it as well, but no sharpening, straightening, etc. Converted from NEF to TIFF with no steps in between (other than color balance and cropping). I tried to make sure the light was centered over the two devices, and that I was focused on the center. This picture does a good job of representing what I see sitting in my chair under my reading light. It's clear to me here that the K3 is the winner (but it's not by as noticeable a margin as I'd originally thought). Is this perhaps all due to the PW light always being on?

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1421633/PWvK3.tif
"

Last edited by TXCiclista; 10-04-2012 at 01:31 PM.
TXCiclista is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 01:13 PM   #20
frostschutz
Linux User
frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
frostschutz's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,279
Karma: 6123806
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Device: none
Should've saved it as PNG, it's lossless and cuts the size to a fifth of that [still incomplete] TIFF...

For same light conditions just slap em side by side on a flatbet scanner with a black cloth (shirt or whatever) on top (and / or completely darkened room) and scan at 600-1200dpi ish. Provided the scanner can handle extra 1-2mm distance to the display without blurring it.

I actually like the left one better, finger prints and all. The kindle on the right side has formatting issues. But that's more a comparison of software and fonts than of display; for a display comparison both would have to show the exact same picture.
frostschutz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 01:31 PM   #21
TXCiclista
Member
TXCiclista began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 14
Karma: 10
Join Date: Oct 2012
Device: Kindle (Keyboard or Paperwhite, unsure)
Actually, the PNG only cut the size down to 65Mb, so I figured the TIFF was as good as anything since it kept the steps to a minimum.

I tried the scanner, but it was an utter failure. The PW light overlay appears to scatter the light, so it came out looking far worse than it actually is.

You're right about comparing with the exact same image, but I'm trying to get at the somewhat subjective experience of looking at the same book within the limitations of the device. That you (and many others) still prefer the left display makes me think more and more that I'm either being overly picky or (perhaps more likely) I'm just used to the K3 and I'm interpreting the difference in the PW as somehow deficient. I'm going to stick to the PW for a week and then come back to the K# and see if I've changed my mind.

Last edited by TXCiclista; 10-04-2012 at 01:37 PM.
TXCiclista is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 01:32 PM   #22
kacir
Wizard
kacir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kacir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kacir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kacir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kacir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kacir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kacir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kacir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kacir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kacir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kacir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kacir's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,447
Karma: 10484861
Join Date: May 2006
Device: PocketBook 360, before it was Sony Reader, cassiopeia A-20
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXCiclista View Post
Here's a shot that I' ve cropped to place PW and K3 text side by side (OK, really top-and-bottom). Top is PW and bottom is K3. This is actually an interesting comparison. Looking at "Red Book" it seems obvious that the PW (top) has the better font. It's smoother and it's clear there are more "pixels" involved. However, the K3 seems (to me) to win on crispness. But perhaps there's an explanation in that the K3 font is actually the cruder of the two, and so just appears to be crisper because it's just not as refined and smooth a font?

The top one is clearly superior.
Uses more pixels, seems to have better antialiasing.

But I can see why some would prefer the more pixelated one. The straight edges of letters seem to be more clearly defined.
Amazon perhaps didn't make hinting as aggressive on PW, because there is no such urgent need for it.

When you show Windows screen to an Apple user or Apple screen to a Windows user, they are going to be dissatisfied. This is because Windows users are used to aggressively hinted fonts, while Apple antialiases at any cost. See http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/06/12.html

So, this is mainly about user preference.
kacir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 01:40 PM   #23
TXCiclista
Member
TXCiclista began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 14
Karma: 10
Join Date: Oct 2012
Device: Kindle (Keyboard or Paperwhite, unsure)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kacir View Post
The top one is clearly superior.
Uses more pixels, seems to have better antialiasing.

But I can see why some would prefer the more pixelated one. The straight edges of letters seem to be more clearly defined.
Amazon perhaps didn't make hinting as aggressive on PW, because there is no such urgent need for it.
This is helpful, thanks. I think you and many others are helping me "get at" this better. The PW has a better display, but the K3 seems "straighter." I'm still also on the fence about the always-on PW light. I'm not convinced it's not somehow washing text out a bit.
TXCiclista is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 01:51 PM   #24
frostschutz
Linux User
frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frostschutz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
frostschutz's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,279
Karma: 6123806
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Device: none
If you want to try different fonts, I think you can embed them now in the new format?

Maybe all it would take to make you happy is a crisper font.
frostschutz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 01:58 PM   #25
markdek
Addict
markdek ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.markdek ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.markdek ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.markdek ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.markdek ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.markdek ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.markdek ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.markdek ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.markdek ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.markdek ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.markdek ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 202
Karma: 1015348
Join Date: Apr 2011
Device: Kindle 3
Look at the slanted sides of the "W", in your example.

Seem like the edges of the K3 are more pixelated/jagged, which is indicative of the lesser resolution. I think that's the "straighter" effect you refer to.

However, I am surprised that the K3 does so well against the PW.
markdek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 02:04 PM   #26
TXCiclista
Member
TXCiclista began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 14
Karma: 10
Join Date: Oct 2012
Device: Kindle (Keyboard or Paperwhite, unsure)
Quote:
Originally Posted by markdek View Post
However, I am surprised that the K3 does so well against the PW.
Judging by comments in the Amazon forums over the past few years, I think my K3 is an unusual model. I was insistent that I get a good display (sent 3 back) and it looks like it paid off.

Last edited by TXCiclista; 10-04-2012 at 02:09 PM.
TXCiclista is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 09:02 PM   #27
ixtab
(offline)
ixtab ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ixtab ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ixtab ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ixtab ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ixtab ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ixtab ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ixtab ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ixtab ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ixtab ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ixtab ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ixtab ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
ixtab's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,907
Karma: 6736092
Join Date: Dec 2011
Device: K3, K4, K5, KPW, KPW2
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXCiclista View Post
Fair point, though made in a somewhat juvenile fashion.

Here's a shot that I' ve cropped to place PW and K3 text side by side (OK, really top-and-bottom). Top is PW and bottom is K3. This is actually an interesting comparison. Looking at "Red Book" it seems obvious that the PW (top) has the better font. It's smoother and it's clear there are more "pixels" involved. However, the K3 seems (to me) to win on crispness. But perhaps there's an explanation in that the K3 font is actually the cruder of the two, and so just appears to be crisper because it's just not as refined and smooth a font? I wonder if this is akin to lower-DPI LCDs that can appear to have sharper text because they can't smooth the font as well. While the higher-DPI LCD actually shows text better, it appears to be softer because of better smoothing.

Yep, I agree with you - I also like the bottom one better. For lack of a better word, the top one seems too "washed out" to me. Too much antialiasing, IMO. The problem is that the letters seem to "fade out" at the edges, instead of providing a sharp cut against the background. This is all subjective, of course.
ixtab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 09:58 PM   #28
Barty
doofus
Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Barty's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,507
Karma: 12615905
Join Date: Sep 2010
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kindle Voyage
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixtab View Post
Yep, I agree with you - I also like the bottom one better. For lack of a better word, the top one seems too "washed out" to me. Too much antialiasing, IMO. The problem is that the letters seem to "fade out" at the edges, instead of providing a sharp cut against the background. This is all subjective, of course.
I also prefer the bottom; even though the bottom is more pixilated, the top to me is over anti aliased to the point of blurring. Of course it may be a different story at normal size and viewing distance.
Barty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 10:02 PM   #29
Blossom
Treasure Seeker
Blossom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Blossom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Blossom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Blossom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Blossom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Blossom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Blossom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Blossom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Blossom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Blossom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Blossom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Blossom's Avatar
 
Posts: 18,708
Karma: 26026435
Join Date: Mar 2010
Device: Kobo HD Glo, Kindles, Kindle Fires, Andriod Devices
If it is the cause of too much smoothing. A simple firmware update could fix that problem.
Blossom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 10:36 PM   #30
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 73,510
Karma: 126422064
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXCiclista View Post
OK, here's a cut & paste from my Amazon.com Discussions thread on the same topic:

OK, here we go. I went ahead and pulled out (almost) all the stops. This is a large file (~65Mb) that I kept at full resolution. I've color-balanced it as well, but no sharpening, straightening, etc. Converted from NEF to TIFF with no steps in between (other than color balance and cropping). I tried to make sure the light was centered over the two devices, and that I was focused on the center. This picture does a good job of representing what I see sitting in my chair under my reading light. It's clear to me here that the K3 is the winner (but it's not by as noticeable a margin as I'd originally thought). Is this perhaps all due to the PW light always being on?

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1421633/PWvK3.tif
"
I had no idea the KPW showed fingerprints like that. A pearl screen with just IR touch does not show fingerprints that badly. Is this something with that unit or is this an inherent flaw in the capacitance touch layer?
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Paperwhite Owners: Are you happy with the screen? iJn Amazon Kindle 128 02-07-2013 08:47 PM
Paperwhite screen capture? tomsem Amazon Kindle 11 10-07-2012 02:33 PM
Is pricing getting worse? PieOPah Lounge 9 10-08-2009 12:23 PM
Well, it could have been worse khalleron Sony Reader 17 08-30-2009 02:49 AM
Well, for better or for worse... AlisaMc Introduce Yourself 6 09-09-2008 02:54 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:19 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.