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Old 08-18-2010, 07:29 AM   #1
JeremyR
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Do all e-readers turn black between pages?

I've got a Kindle 3 ordered. I've vaguely wanted one for a while, but to be honest, I haven't followed such things that carefully, since not until recently were they in my price range.

But seeing a video of it and the black screen between the page turnings haves given me some pause. While I'm not a speed reader, I do read fairly fast - about 100 pages an hour with a book, which will probably be more on a e-reader (since the pages seem to have fewer words than a book) and having it flash black so much seems like it could get annoying.

I figure I will see if it actually does bug me, and if so, return it or ebay it. But if it does, do I have other options?

I should probably look at video of other devices, but I'm on Satellite broadband, so I have a very small bandwidth cap.

Also curious why it does that. In the video I watched, the guy moved a little cursor around the screen and then there was a dictionary pop-up at the bottom. If it can change those areas without going completely black for a moment, I wouldn't think it would need to do change all the words. But presumably they have a good reason.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:10 AM   #2
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There are readers in which you can deactivate the color inversion. Mine does, for example, the PB360. However, the so-called ghosting problem appears, i.e. the screen doesn't get completely refreshed and some parts are a bit darker. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, but there are people who get so annoyed that they still turn on the inversion.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:20 AM   #3
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The overwhelming majority of people find that, after an hour of so's use, their brain just filters out the black flash so they aren't consciously aware of it any more, just as you probably aren't consciously aware of your vision going black every time you blink. The brain is very good at learning to ignore repetitive but harmless activities.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:24 AM   #4
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I was initially so freaked out by the black screen flash thing that I swore I'd never get an e-ink device.

Well, ahem,... never say never. After maybe 30 or 40 minutes of reading, I stopped noticing it at all. Seriously. It's kind of amazing what kind of adjustments your brain can make, and apparently my brain made that one without any problem at all. It feels just as if I'm turning a physical page in a book.

I saw somebody else on this forum liken it to how it is when you actually TURN a physical page in a book, by the way. Your eyes don't try to follow the edge of the page, or your fingers grasping the page. They just land on the top of the next page.

Hopefully you won't have a problem with it. I encourage you to give it a try, anyway!
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:14 AM   #5
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Well first off, the screen flashing occurs only with e ink displays. The way e ink works is that there are little drops of dye suspended in bubbles and when an electrical charge is applied, the dye rises to the surface or drops back down. The flash you see is when the dye is removed from the page and then reassembled because a new electrical charge has been applied. I didn't notice it either after the few minutes so I wouldn't worry over it. However, if it bothers you, the only other option right now is an LCD reader or a tablet. The LCD readers tend to be cheaper anyway, but the battery life isn't nearly as good and many people say it gives them a headache to read from them. Then of course you have the tablets like the iPad and others which also use LCD screens, though those are color. Again, since it's not e ink, there is no flash.

Good luck with the new Kindle whatever you decide.

Edit: Of course if you wait a few years, other technologies may be on the market by then which don't show the flash.

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Old 08-18-2010, 09:18 AM   #6
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Do you actually notice the time it takes to turn a page in a pbook? You can compare that with the refreshing of an e-ink device.

The first time I was thinking about an e-ink device, I was afraid of the same thing. Now, I don't really notice it. Actually, the only time I do is when it's not there (aka, the page wasn't turned )
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:37 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
The overwhelming majority of people find that, after an hour of so's use, their brain just filters out the black flash so they aren't consciously aware of it any more, just as you probably aren't consciously aware of your vision going black every time you blink. The brain is very good at learning to ignore repetitive but harmless activities.
My brain obviously filters it out because I had to turn a page on my reader just to check if it went black when I read the OP. It really doesn't bother me and the page turn is relatively quick anyway.
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Old 08-18-2010, 10:21 AM   #8
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As pointed out, you can disable the black flash on some readers.
I tried it on my PB360 (the page did a slideshow-like fade, very quick) and found it... disconcerting. Ghosting and residual garbage wasn't the issue but rather the absence of the flash. I've gotten used to the flash and I don't notice it so I perceive the page turn as an instant page swap; the new one just pops in.
After a few minutes I went back to the standard mode.
I don't have an issue when reading on my PDA or Tablet PC or the LCD-based Jetbook Lite so obviously the effect isn't permanent.
Eventually eInk tech will get faster and the black flash will never be noticeable, even for newbies.
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Old 08-18-2010, 01:09 PM   #9
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There are some ebook readers that don't flash (nor ever need to) flash between pages, and that are the ones that use LCD screens of some descriptions. Of the relatively current devices, the Jetbooks and the Libre are probably the best all around for reading. There are some with color screens, but generally, they have shorter battery life and have backlights.

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Old 08-18-2010, 01:16 PM   #10
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Jeremy, I have an EZReader with an eInk screen and a jetBook Lite with a reflective TFT screen. The first has the black flash, the second does not.

I find that the black flash does not annoy me at all, although there are more than a few people who are indeed bothered by it.

However, the time the EZReader takes to change the page is far too slow compared to my jetBook Lite. I do find that annoying.

I therefore recommend that you settle on a device whose processor changes the pages quickly. I expect that the Kindle 3 will. But if the flash bothers you after you receive the Kindle 3, I wholeheartedly suggest that you consider the jetBook Lite, which was on sale two weeks go for $69.99 at Newegg.
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Old 08-18-2010, 10:35 PM   #11
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Well first off, the screen flashing occurs only with e ink displays. The way e ink works is that there are little drops of dye suspended in bubbles and when an electrical charge is applied, the dye rises to the surface or drops back down. The flash you see is when the dye is removed from the page and then reassembled because a new electrical charge has been applied. I didn't notice it either after the few minutes so I wouldn't worry over it. However, if it bothers you, the only other option right now is an LCD reader or a tablet. The LCD readers tend to be cheaper anyway, but the battery life isn't nearly as good and many people say it gives them a headache to read from them. Then of course you have the tablets like the iPad and others which also use LCD screens, though those are color. Again, since it's not e ink, there is no flash.

Good luck with the new Kindle whatever you decide.

Edit: Of course if you wait a few years, other technologies may be on the market by then which don't show the flash.

Eric
I was just thinking if they did not have to flash black and then reflash the page with the words, we'd have so to say double the battery life of the current crop of readers. That would be ridiculous. I mean, 13-15000 page turns of battery life is.... <speechless>
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:58 PM   #12
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i don't actually have any experience with it, but i can't imagine the inversion being any more annoying than a page turn when reading a physical book.
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Old 08-19-2010, 12:13 AM   #13
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I have a Sony 505, and have to admit that while I loved the display itself, the page flashing irritated me. I am also a pretty quick reader, so the flashing just was a constant issue for me...I know some people try to compare it to actual physical page turns or even the animated turns on LCD displays ("those don't bother you, right???") but to me the flash feels more like a technical glitch (I do know the actual reason) than anything natural or something that I can ignore.

I still used the 505 because it was the best option at the time...but I found myself using my iPhone a lot more, and once I got my iPad the Sony has been just gathering dust.

Also, LCD displays don't bother me at all, so your mileage may differ.

I'll re-look at the next generation or two of e-Ink; I've seen some pretty impressive animation demos, which means they have definitely been working on selective refresh, which will negate the need to "flash" the entire screen after every page turn. I think we are still in the dark ages when it comes to natural displays-lots of great stuff coming in the next few years!
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Old 08-19-2010, 12:21 AM   #14
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I'd like to see the readers given away free and the black between pages be advertisements
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Old 08-19-2010, 12:41 AM   #15
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I have a Sony 505, and have to admit that while I loved the display itself, the page flashing irritated me. !
The page refresh on the 505 is much much slower than on the current crop of readers.
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