TOC at the beginning or end?

sassanik · 08-09-2012, 11:47 PM

Okay random question, I got a comment that someone did not like that the toc of my Amazon ebook was at the end of the book. Now I find the toc at the start to be annoying, its just something I bypass and just the navigation menu if I want to access the toc.

So opinions?

Amy

ps: now if I could figure out how to add a poll!

pps: Ah hah! Figured it out and added

charlesatan · 08-10-2012, 12:46 AM

Beginning or navigation menu.

Having it at the end feels like a feature you only realize you had when you don't need it anymore.

BangBangO · 08-10-2012, 05:12 AM

At the beginning

1. shows people a ToC is available. A lot won't know they can reach it as ToCs are badly managed on their device (say three taps away in an obscure menu, which is just some terrible and annoying UI/UX). In some cases (non-fiction), when we know the ToC is a "navigational pivot" since it is a guide and people will use it in a non-linear manner, we even add an extra layer of navigational network (breadcrumbs at the beginning of each part) so that the ToC is available anywhere anytime… and people send mails to thank us because their device's User Interface is just plain bad.

2. some descriptions are so vague that you download a sample to judge the value of the book. If you put the ToC at the beginning of the book, it (sort of) helps undecided people purchase the book as they can get extra information, especially with non-fiction.

VydorScope · 08-10-2012, 06:33 AM

TOC always goes at the beginning and there should be proper formatting so the navigation menu also work.

gmw · 08-10-2012, 08:23 AM

At the beginning, of course. If it was at the end it would be an Index.

kennyc · 08-11-2012, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VydorScope

TOC always goes at the beginning and there should be proper formatting so the navigation menu also work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmw

At the beginning, of course. If it was at the end it would be an Index.

anabelee · 08-13-2012, 04:18 AM

I use the navigation buttons to access the TOC, but in any case, at the beginning.

Asawi · 08-13-2012, 06:41 AM

I use navigation menu, but they should still be in the beginning.

DiapDealer · 08-13-2012, 07:25 AM

At the beginning ... for various reasons. Most of those reasons have already been mentioned, but one that hasn't been mentioned, is that the ToC being located at the very end of an ebook renders any "Sync to Furthest Read Page" feature essentially useless as soon as you decide to visit the ToC using the navigation menu.

QuantumIguana · 08-13-2012, 12:37 PM

When ever I want to go to the TOC, I use the menu to get there. If the TOC is in the front, then I think it is a good idea to adjust the length of the sample. I've downloaded samples of books, only to find that the sample ends before the book actually starts.

Belfaborac · 08-13-2012, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

At the beginning ... for various reasons. Most of those reasons have already been mentioned, but one that hasn't been mentioned, is that the ToC being located at the very end of an ebook renders any "Sync to Furthest Read Page" feature essentially useless as soon as you decide to visit the ToC using the navigation menu.

I almost never use the TOC so it shouldn't matter to me, but the one, big reason I still absolutely want it to be at the front is this.

JSWolf · 08-13-2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sassanik

Okay random question, I got a comment that someone did not like that the toc of my Amazon ebook was at the end of the book. Now I find the toc at the start to be annoying, its just something I bypass and just the navigation menu if I want to access the toc.

So opinions?

Amy

ps: now if I could figure out how to add a poll!

pps: Ah hah! Figured it out and added

If it's ePub, there's no need for a ToC at the beginning or end as all you need is the ToC in the NCX.

fidvo · 08-13-2012, 11:10 PM

Usually if something has been done a certain way for a long time, there's a good reason for it. Don't break from a tradition unless you know what that reason is, and have a better reason for doing so.

In the case of the Table of Contents, it's useful to have it right up front so the readers can easily access it. In cases where chapters have names, it can help someone to find where they left off reading if they lost their place. Or if there's a long Foreword to the book that the reader just plain doesn't want to read, they can use the TOC to easily skip it (like previews at the beginning of DVD's. Don't get me started).

Of course, with ebooks these points aren't quite as important, especially with the navigator TOC, but they're still valid.

bigjantailor · 08-14-2012, 08:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by VydorScope
TOC always goes at the beginning and there should be proper formatting so the navigation menu also work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmw
At the beginning, of course. If it was at the end it would be an Index.

Agreed.

JSWolf · 08-14-2012, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VydorScope

TOC always goes at the beginning and there should be proper formatting so the navigation menu also work.

But in an ePub, there is no ToC at the beginning such that the ToC navigation option works. It's actually to the side (toc.ncx).

View Poll Results: TOC location
start of the book	29	69.05%
end of the book	2	4.76%
what is a toc?	2	4.76%
I use the navigation menu to access the toc	9	21.43%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

08-09-2012, 11:47 PM	#1
sassanik Guru Posts: 774 Karma: 1211741 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Oregon Device: EB1150, iPhone, Cool-er Purple, Pocketbook 360, Kindle Fire	TOC at the beginning or end? Okay random question, I got a comment that someone did not like that the toc of my Amazon ebook was at the end of the book. Now I find the toc at the start to be annoying, its just something I bypass and just the navigation menu if I want to access the toc. So opinions? Amy ps: now if I could figure out how to add a poll! pps: Ah hah! Figured it out and added Last edited by sassanik; 08-09-2012 at 11:49 PM. Reason: poll added

08-10-2012, 05:12 AM	#3
BangBangO Junior Member Posts: 6 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2012 Device: Kindle	At the beginning 1. shows people a ToC is available. A lot won't know they can reach it as ToCs are badly managed on their device (say three taps away in an obscure menu, which is just some terrible and annoying UI/UX). In some cases (non-fiction), when we know the ToC is a "navigational pivot" since it is a guide and people will use it in a non-linear manner, we even add an extra layer of navigational network (breadcrumbs at the beginning of each part) so that the ToC is available anywhere anytime… and people send mails to thank us because their device's User Interface is just plain bad. 2. some descriptions are so vague that you download a sample to judge the value of the book. If you put the ToC at the beginning of the book, it (sort of) helps undecided people purchase the book as they can get extra information, especially with non-fiction. Last edited by BangBangO; 08-10-2012 at 05:22 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
TOC showing up at the end of MOBI	ebookn00b	Calibre	9	06-10-2012 01:01 AM
The beginning of the end for DRM?	plib	News	111	05-25-2012 09:14 AM
Calibre TOC at end	Dante	Calibre	17	12-19-2010 09:36 AM
Generating TOC entries for prelims / end matter in InDesign	forlor	ePub	7	07-07-2010 08:26 AM
Fb2 Input (Do not insert a ToC at the beginning)	Garfunkel	Calibre	0	10-08-2009 01:49 PM

08-10-2012, 12:46 AM	#2
charlesatan Addict Posts: 230 Karma: 3799024 Join Date: May 2012 Device: iPad	Beginning or navigation menu. Having it at the end feels like a feature you only realize you had when you don't need it anymore.

08-10-2012, 06:33 AM	#4
VydorScope Wizard Posts: 3,418 Karma: 35207650 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: iPad	TOC always goes at the beginning and there should be proper formatting so the navigation menu also work.

08-10-2012, 08:23 AM	#5
gmw cacoethes scribendi Posts: 5,809 Karma: 137770742 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650	At the beginning, of course. If it was at the end it would be an Index.

08-13-2012, 04:18 AM	#7
anabelee Zealot Posts: 114 Karma: 583 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Vigo, Spain Device: Woxter Scriba 150, pocketbook 360	I use the navigation buttons to access the TOC, but in any case, at the beginning.

08-13-2012, 06:41 AM	#8
Asawi Gadgetoholic Posts: 1,462 Karma: 2731820 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sweden Device: Kobo Libra2, Tolino Vision 6	I use navigation menu, but they should still be in the beginning.

08-13-2012, 07:25 AM	#9
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,547 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	At the beginning ... for various reasons. Most of those reasons have already been mentioned, but one that hasn't been mentioned, is that the ToC being located at the very end of an ebook renders any "Sync to Furthest Read Page" feature essentially useless as soon as you decide to visit the ToC using the navigation menu.

08-13-2012, 12:37 PM	#10
QuantumIguana Philosopher Posts: 2,034 Karma: 18736532 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch	When ever I want to go to the TOC, I use the menu to get there. If the TOC is in the front, then I think it is a good idea to adjust the length of the sample. I've downloaded samples of books, only to find that the sample ends before the book actually starts.

08-13-2012, 11:10 PM	#13
fidvo Addict Posts: 296 Karma: 1599870 Join Date: Jun 2012 Device: none	Usually if something has been done a certain way for a long time, there's a good reason for it. Don't break from a tradition unless you know what that reason is, and have a better reason for doing so. In the case of the Table of Contents, it's useful to have it right up front so the readers can easily access it. In cases where chapters have names, it can help someone to find where they left off reading if they lost their place. Or if there's a long Foreword to the book that the reader just plain doesn't want to read, they can use the TOC to easily skip it (like previews at the beginning of DVD's. Don't get me started). Of course, with ebooks these points aren't quite as important, especially with the navigator TOC, but they're still valid.

08-14-2012, 08:27 PM	#14
bigjantailor Defender of Consciousness Posts: 69 Karma: 3323596 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Vancouver Device: none	Quote: Originally Posted by VydorScope TOC always goes at the beginning and there should be proper formatting so the navigation menu also work. Quote: Originally Posted by gmw At the beginning, of course. If it was at the end it would be an Index. Agreed.