LCD vs. e-ink

[astra]

Originally Posted by ColdSun

partly due to the misleading information about eyestrain and LCD screens

I started to use LCD screens from Jan 2005. Very actively. Reading online course. I got it instead of CRT because CRT was causing eyestrain. The difference was very significant. It was a revelation for me. However, I didn't cancel my eye strain problem completely. I would still get eye strain but it would take longer to cause discomfort.
Do you understand what I am saying? There was no eInk back then. I didn't read anything about LCD causing eye strain or anything like that. It was my personal experience. The only warning that I had came from my friend. He told me that yes, LCD is much better than CRT but many people still complain about it. He said, that LCD doesn't bother him, he can read for hours without any problem.
I never read ebooks because I could not.

Repeat. I started to use LCD in Jan 2005. No knowledge of eInk or backlit monitor related issues. Pure personal experience.

[ColdSun]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

The fact that millions of people who have access to LCD screens have chosen to buy e-ink readers is evidence of their preferences.

A lot better evidence than your repeated and tendentious argument that people who buy e-ink readers are idiots deluded by a vast marketing conspiracy.

Feel free to offer some proof of that. Take your time.



You know, it's a pain arguing with people who are intellectually dishonest. The only people who raise the eyestrain issues are readers trying to explain why they prefer e-ink. No marketer has made this claim. It's just more of your strained attempt to prove that people with e-ink readers are deluded by some imaginary storm of e-ink marketing.

[/QUOTE]

So now its down to insulting me. You keep asking me to prove something to you, and yet you ignore my statements and continue with the same diatribe which you still haven't proven. There is no strained attempt at anything, it is my opinion, one that obviously bothers you (truth hurts?), and one that has more credibility than your assumption that everyone with eink prefers that technology. Now you state that we can indeed get LCD readers of the quality of eink readers (for reading) and I have to say you are full of it. There hasn't been a technology boost in many years for LCD readers (until now with a high quality entry called Nook Color) because the manufacturers have been stuffing eink down our throats. You call me dishonest, ** edited out for good form by ColdSun **

[astra]

Originally Posted by ColdSun

There hasn't been a technology boost in many years for LCD readers because the manufacturers have been stuffing eink down our throats.

What does development of eInk has to do with LCD technology? All computer monitors are LCD, most of TVs are. LCD technology is being used everywhere. All tablets are LCD based. They are equivalents of ebook readers. You cannot make it any better because you need a huge battery to support LCD for puny 10-12 hours and bigger cases to accommodate all of it.
Do you blame eInk that LCD development is stagnated and incapable of being able to be squeezed into ebook reader case of PRS-650 size and keep on running for 2 weeks without a need for recharge? For not being able to be readable on a sunny day?
eInk is a culprit.
Interesting.

[ColdSun]

Originally Posted by astra

What development of eInk has t do with LCD technology? All computer monitors are LCD, most of TVs are. LCD technology is being used everywhere. All tablets are LCD based. They are equivalents of ebook readers. You cannot make it any better because you need a huge battery to support LCD for puny 10-12 hours and bigger cases to accommodate all of it.
Do you blame eInk that LCD development is stagnated and incapable of being able to be squeezed into ebook reader case of PRS-650 size and keep on running for 2 weeks without a need for recharge? For not being able to be readable on a sunny day? eInk is a culprit.
Interesting.

Are you kidding me? When was the last LCD device made aimed squarely at reading? Panasonic Words Gear maybe? Cruz Reader? Words Gear failed and never made it out of Japan. Cruz Reader is a low quality device, but certainly a step in the right direction. This has nothing to do with the technology itself and everything to do with a reading-specific device. I do blame eink for stagnated LCD ebook reader development. Ebookwise-1150 ring a bell? Why are you trying to argue over something completely different than what I am writing? Tablets are a fairly new technology, which can read, but aren't designed as dedicated readers. Nook Color, although has Android, the OS is locked down and features are aimed at reading content of all kinds. I've been on this site for years (as you have Astra) talking about LCD and converging devices. I'm happy there are tablets like iPad and Galaxy Tab that offer a powerful converged experience. At the same time, I see a huge market for an LCD reading specific device the size of the Nook Color for people who just want a paperback-sized reader that works in the dark. It has a high quality screen as well as a lower price. Argue till you are out of breath, I'm done with it, except to say there is room for both types of technology in the market, just don't say eink is preferred by a majority when it just isn't true.

[astra]

Originally Posted by ColdSun

I do blame eink for stagnated LCD ebook reader development. Ebookwise-1150 ring a bell? Why are you trying to argue over something completely different than what I am writing?

No. I am not. Ebookwise-1150 could not be used for longer than 18 hours I think. eInk based ebook reader can go on for 2 weeks. A good feature of eInk is a fault for stagnated LCD ebook reader development? It is a joke at the best. LCD simply fails to fulfil the demands. What you are doing is like blaming LCD for stagnated CRT ebook reader development. New technology has emerged and proved to be better in a specific area of gadgets. LCD technology was and is developing all the time. For example a change of lamps for LEDs. However, regardless whether we had eInk or not LCD would not be able to do it.

[ColdSun]

Originally Posted by astra

No. I am not. Ebookwise-1150 could not be used for longer than 18 hours I think. eInk based ebook reader can go on for 2 weeks. A good feature of eInk is a fault for stagnated LCD ebook reader development? It is a joke at the best. LCD simply fails to fulfil the demands. What you are doing is like blaming LCD for stagnated CRT ebook reader development. New technology has emerged and proved to be better in a specific area of gadgets. LCD technology was and is developing all the time. For example a change of lamps for LEDs. However, regardless whether we had eInk or not LCD would not be able to do it.

Actually the ebookwise had a fantastic battery and could last up to 20 hours depending on the condition of the battery. That is besides the point though, as we all know MOST LCD readers don't have long battery life. So your comment about battery life is absolutely true.

Your comment about LCD failing to deliver the demands is false. Why are tablets and iPads insanely popular? Why is BN releasing an ebook reading device in LCD? Because battery life is a non-issue. Most of us charge our phones every day or some other device. I am not blaming LCD for anything, I'm blaming eink for stagnating the market with only eink devices when LCD devices could be made even then to read comfortably on (ebookwise-1150 is proof). Why do you think some of us have been reading on netbooks and PDAs all this time?

For some people battery life, reading in full light and paper-display makes the perfect reader. For some, having a backlight is a necessary feature. You will never understand because you have always been on the other side of the fence. People like you scoffed at me when I talked about tablets and LCD readers two years ago. Well look what has happened? Exactly as many of us predicted. Tablets are popular. Companies are starting to realize LCD does indeed make a good reader and has a market. -snip- took this out because it was just mean and not my nature.

[Rebo]

Originally Posted by tipstir

Sometimes it boils down to the eye glass you read with. If you do wear them. Those that are sold in the pharmacy from 1.00+ all the way up to 4.00+. You could try them and see if they help you see better on the e-reader. There is only so much they can do with technology on these panels. I tell my eye doc I need special glasses for the computer, these are anti-glare an etc. The problem with glasses has to be design for where the distance from the LCD monitor screen is. The tablet or e-reader LCD panel you'll be closer too. A lot of variables to have to consider. I only mention all of this because you say you get headaches. I was getting that too and way to much grey wash.

It must be my eye sight is not what it used to be. I used to read a lot more but I was getting headaches when reading paper backs in low light even though I have prescription eye glasses. I bought the nook so I can enlarge the font; that helps but similar to paper, I still get headaches when reading in low light. I don't have problems though reading with LCD computer monitor for extended period of time. That is one of the reasons that I want to buy a LCD tablet for reading and for surfing the web.

[astra]

Originally Posted by ColdSun

For some people battery life, reading in full light and paper-display makes the perfect reader. For some, having a backlight is a necessary feature. You will never understand because you have always been on the other side of the fence.

See?
That's why I repeated it twice in my first post. Jan 2005. No knowledge about eInk or LCD eye strain related issues. Thus, I could not be always on the other side. Moreover, I do appreciate that for some people LCD is fine, like my friend I told you about in the first post, and for some people LCD is not an option, like me.
I do not attempt to persuade people who has no issue with LCD that LCD is bad for their eyes. It is the LCD side who always attack me and tell me that LCD related eye strain is a figment of my imagination and such an issue doesn't exist.

See the difference?

[ColdSun]

Originally Posted by astra

See?
That's why I repeated it twice in my first post. Jan 2005. No knowledge about eInk or LCD eye strain related issues. Thus, I could not be always on the other side. Moreover, I do appreciate that for some people LCD is fine, like my friend I told you about in the first post, and for some people LCD is not an option, like me.
I do not attempt to persuade people who has no issue with LCD that LCD is bad for their eyes. It is the LCD side who always attack me and tell me that LCD related eye strain is a figment of my imagination and such an issue doesn't exist.

See the difference?

I do, however, you are not the one I was talking to when I made this argument. Also, if you had seen what I saw, and you still can, on Engadget's press release and preview of the Nook it was filled with eink fans saying "OMG LCD, it will burn my eyes out." Seriously, go read it. People on there literally believe LCD can burn their eyes like a laser beam.... This might by why some of us here defend it so hard. My apologies if you think in any way I want to replace eink - I think we NEED it and the more choice we have the better. As you can see I have eink in my collection, and have had more than the one in my list. I love it for certain conditions... But for reading in bed I always choose one of my LCD devices (and I read every night before sleep).

[HarryT]

I would like to remind everyone of our Posting Guidelines. Please keep conversations civil, and disagree with peoples' opinions; making personal attacks is not acceptable.

Thank you.

HarryT.
Moderator

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

The fact that millions of people who have access to LCD screens have chosen to buy e-ink readers is evidence of their preferences..

[/QUOTE]

Umm no I think it is more of a fact that e-ink readers are the first on the market that are PORTABLE, and all that was AVAILABLE.

We all should know by now how markets operate, TV's when they first came out 50+ years ago were these huge boxes with tiny screens that were what?...Black & White. Later on came color, later on screen size when up, while weight also went up, now we have lcd screens that are every size with the weight according to size.

We are now starting to get color ereaders. No doubt this has been in the marketing scheme for years.

Again, if you are having problems with lcd monitors, you probably aren't seeing to well with your e-ink either, and should probably go see an eye doctor to get the glasses that you don't want, but actually NEED!

[ColdSun]

Umm no I think it is more of a fact that e-ink readers are the first on the market that are PORTABLE, and all that was AVAILABLE. [/QUOTE]

That is exactly what I've been trying to say but it falls on deaf ears as they have chosen to tune out the truth. I didn't want eink from the start because no backlight but I got one eventually and realized it was excellent technology. I still wanted my backlit color reader though. I've gone through so many devices looking for the right one for MY reading preferences (not someone's idea of what I should use because it is the only tech out). This Nook Color excites me more than anything so far. It has the guts to do the job and the screen to do it in style. The only drawback I see is battery life, but as usual, this is something I don't mind because charging isn't a problem.

The most recent device I have purchased was a Pandigital Novel, which I am using now to read (with a hacked OS). Some folks don't like the page turning speed and especially the lack of response for the touch screen. These don't bother me as much, but looking at the Nook Color videos it is clear that NC is in a different league of quality. I hope I'm right, but if not I'll just keep searching until I find the right device. If the iPad was a little smaller it would have been perfect. Or better yet, the current generation of iPod Touch be a 7" would be ideal!

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by tipstir

(old tech)Vizplex / Pearl E (new tech) I say you need to test out the device with each feature and see which one doesn't make you feel with your head. They have come a long with since the days of the TI AVIGO Back-lite Glow on green screen TouchPad. Now clarity for reading on these e-readers:



Pearl E has less gray, blacks are blacker, sharp crisper text seems to jump off the screen.

I don't know what comparing Vizplex with Pearl has to do with the thread on a debate between LCD and E-Ink, but since you are here, can you tell me what makes you say that Pearl has less grey? From what I can see with Photoshop they are the same. It is true that the text is darker, but not by much.

This could just be the jedi mind trick:
vendor *waves hand*: Pearl is much better
public: Pearl is much better

vendor1 *waves hand*: reading on E-Ink is just like reading on paper
public : reading on E-Ink is just like reading on paper

vendor2 *waves hand*: with an LCD screen you can do anything on the device
public : with an LCD screen I can do anything on the device

vendor3 *waves hand*: entourage edge is not too heavy
public : ...

Well, it can't work every time.
On the other hand I'm buying an E-Ink now, and tablets look so shiny, so I'll probably buy one next year.

[RockdaMan]

Originally Posted by ColdSun

The LCD eyestrain issue is a myth.

Not for me.

[RockdaMan]

Originally Posted by ColdSun

Also, if you had seen what I saw, and you still can, on Engadget's press release and preview of the Nook it was filled with eink fans saying "OMG LCD, it will burn my eyes out." Seriously, go read it. People on there literally believe LCD can burn their eyes like a laser beam.... This might by why some of us here defend it so hard.

I don't understand why you defend it and not the LCD manufactuers.

Also, why dismiss peoples observations? My observation is that I can read longer and more comfortably on a e-ink device. >shrug<