styles in pocketbook 360

[krjrs]

Having the pocketbook 360, I must admit, that... I had greater expectations for such kind of a device (price versus all other things) :-D

"un-ordered list" in html files - is it possible to redefine <li> tag with different kind of indent (second line+) than in regular <p> paragraph? lists should display as lists and not paragraphs. I didn't found anything in "styles.xml" that would give me the view how to do it.

[mtravellerh]

Originally Posted by krjrs

Having the pocketbook 360, I must admit, that... I had greater expectations for such kind of a device (price versus all other things) :-D

"un-ordered list" in html files - is it possible to redefine <li> tag with different kind of indent (second line+) than in regular <p> paragraph? lists should display as lists and not paragraphs. I didn't found anything in "styles.xml" that would give me the view how to do it.

Could you please try to be a bit more specific? (format - viewer app - source and so on)

[krjrs]

when I load html document, I have following

<indent> text text text
text text text text text
text text text text text

and it is both, for paragraphs and unordered lists.
the <indent> is a set of empty spaces of course.
I want to have lists like this:

<mark> text text text
<indent> text text text
<indent> text text text

as it should be. it appears, that html <li> tag is totally ignored by default pocketbook 360 viewer or I'm missing something. Do I expect too much for a device at such price? :-D

p.s.: sorry for my english.

[jackie_w]

The only HTML tags I've been able to configure formats for, in fbreader/fbreader180, using styles.xml are:-

Paragraph styles

• <p> - "Default Paragraph"
• <h1> to <h6> - "Header 1" to "Header 6"
• <pre> - "Preformatted text"
• <img> - "Image"

Character styles

• <em> - "Emphasis"
• <i> - "Italic"
• <strong> - "Strong"
• <b> - "Bold"
• <sub> - "Subscript"
• <sup> - "Superscript"

... and maybe
<a> - "Internal Hyperlink" or "External Hyperlink", but I haven't experimented
<code> - "Code" ditto

The fbreader paragraph styles "Verse", "Stanza", "Annotation" and "Epigraph" look as if they might be useful but I have no idea how I would write HTML to use them. If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them.

The following common HTML tags seem to be completely missing:-

• <blockquote>
• <ol>, <ul>, <li>
• <dl>, <dt>, <dd>
• all table stuff

If I have HTML with these tags then I've had to convert to EPUB using Calibre then read using AdobeViewer, not fbreader.

Can anyone shed any further light on HTML?

[mtravellerh]

Originally Posted by krjrs

when I load html document, I have following

<indent> text text text
text text text text text
text text text text text

and it is both, for paragraphs and unordered lists.
the <indent> is a set of empty spaces of course.
I want to have lists like this:

<mark> text text text
<indent> text text text
<indent> text text text

as it should be. it appears, that html <li> tag is totally ignored by default pocketbook 360 viewer or I'm missing something. Do I expect too much for a device at such price? :-D

p.s.: sorry for my english.

I am still a bit unsure what format you are using. Do you speak about html books? The default viewer for this is fbreader. fbreader is not very good with css and styles. If you want those styles to be respected, please use Calibre to convert your html to epub and use Adobe Viewer for a correct rendering.

Our programming team is working on a webkit browser (beta version is already working) that does a better job with html files directly.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

The fbreader paragraph styles "Verse", "Stanza", "Annotation" and "Epigraph" look as if they might be useful but I have no idea how I would write HTML to use them. If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them.

Have a look at the FB2 format.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FictionBook
https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/FB2

The main site for fb2 format is at
http://www.fictionbook.org/index.php/Eng:FictionBook
but most of the site is in Russian so you will have to use translate.google.com

This is THE format FBReader was made for.
FB2 has all the tags for all the styles.
FB2 is an XML file, so it is very similar to HTML, it is just more strict. (there always has to be a closing tag, the tags must be balanced, there are mandatory tags that have to be in every book, otherwise it won't be rendered)

[krjrs]

@jackie_w - thanks for explanation, you clarified a few small things for me.

I have my pocket since few days, so all this stuff is new for me (I'm under win-XP, and Windows user in general - since the beginning of windows platform, from 3.1 and 95; linux is foreign for me).

I have a lot of my own books (scanned & OCR'ed), and to convert them into "yet another format" is not something that I like. most what I have - is in html, doc/rtf (ready to convert to html), djvu and pdf. nothing in exotic formats like fb2 or epub, because long long time ago, when I started to create my library - I decided that these strange formats are somehow useless (because of lack of many formatting features).

E-ink itself is great. prices, marketing behind, technology progress (I observe it since years), software development, custom software capabilities - not. I feel like going back into a stone age; in XXI century!

Calibre - starts on my computer (2.4GHz/2GB RAM), but when tried to convert something, after 5 minutes of intense HDD work (on an average doc file) without any results - I resigned (HDD killer?). I have other jobs to do; addicting to the "book converting process" is not one of them. I tried also something for automatic conversion, but lost necessary formatting, so this topic just waits for more detailed view.

all I can say now is... "GRRRRRR...!!!!" :-D
If I would know, I would probably buy viliv s5 umpc with ssd.

[mtravellerh]

Originally Posted by krjrs

@jackie_w - thanks for explanation, you clarified a few small things for me.

I have my pocket since few days, so all this stuff is new for me (I'm under win-XP, and Windows user in general - since the beginning of windows platform, from 3.1 and 95; linux is foreign for me).

I have a lot of my own books (scanned & OCR'ed), and to convert them into "yet another format" is not something that I like. most what I have - is in html, doc/rtf (ready to convert to html), djvu and pdf. nothing in exotic formats like fb2 or epub, because long long time ago, when I started to create my library - I decided that these strange formats are somehow useless (because of lack of many formatting features).

E-ink itself is great. prices, marketing behind, technology progress (I observe it since years), software development, custom software capabilities - not. I feel like going back into a stone age; in XXI century!

Calibre - starts on my computer (2.4GHz/2GB RAM), but when tried to convert something, after 5 minutes of intense HDD work (on an average doc file) without any results - I resigned (HDD killer?). I have other jobs to do; addicting to the "book converting process" is not one of them. I tried also something for automatic conversion, but lost necessary formatting, so this topic just waits for more detailed view.

all I can say now is... "GRRRRRR...!!!!" :-D
If I would know, I would probably buy viliv s5 umpc with ssd.

I think a little info on BOOK formats would be in order here. A little patience goes a long way sometimes.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by krjrs

I have a lot of my own books (scanned & OCR'ed), and to convert them into "yet another format" is not something that I like. most what I have - is in html, doc/rtf (ready to convert to html), djvu and pdf. nothing in exotic formats like fb2 or epub, because long long time ago, when I started to create my library - I decided that these strange formats are somehow useless (because of lack of many formatting features).

So where is the problem?
You just drag & drop the files to you reader and start reading. No conversion necessary.
PocketBook can read *most* of the file formats used for e-books directly. Doc, rtf, pdf, html, even djvu or chm. The only major format it can not read directly is lit.
You can not only read doc files directly, you do not have to reformat the files in any way. PocketBook overrides most of the formatting, so you do not have to care if the word document was formated in a Monospaced or Comic Sans or that it has huge margins or too wide or too ticht line spacing. Just load the third-party fbreader and you can configure just about anything.

[Logseman]

krjrs, the matter is that fb2 and ePub are probably the future ebook standard formats, not strange "exotic" ones. The fact that formats like HTML and PDF have been used for ebooks does have to do with the fact that they were the most universal in those moments, and that those ebooks were not meant to be marketed.

[krjrs]

@kacir - the problem is - that I have specific needs; I have certain materials for outer public readings, where "un-ordered list" formating is rather required/better, because it is easier to use, especially if you are a visually impaired person (you know where you are in your topic by finding the list markers). Besides if I pay around 240 euro (or more; it doesn't change anything) for a device, I expect that it will be more than a toy. As an (other) example - when I bought iriver h140 multiplayer device, I downloaded unofficial rockbox firmware (because of musepack and lossless support), configured it once, and since several years - I'm using it, and I'm happy that I don't need to digg inside everyday to change something.

@Logseman - I disagree. The "future" is "now". "Now" you buy the ebook devices, and "now" you pay for them. "Now" you use them, because "now" you have your needs. You are "here and now". My opinion is, that the "market" means, that you agree to be a tasty sheep between hungry wolves. Maybe the fb2/epubg is a good idea for the unknown future. It depends on people who are willing to write a good software and to expand it (and on people who are willing to make limitations, like DRM). Many years ago, when I was creating my own digital library, I had thoughts about my own standard for books. but after some attempts (I'm not a software writter) - I came to a conclusion, that the best way seems to stay with the basic html and multiple files philosophy. Besides - we don't have regular market for ebooks in my language, and most what is now ebooked - is useless "trash" so to speak.

p.s.: my journey with ebooks began in 1999. Since then - I'm waiting, and waiting, and waiting; hopes, promises, ilusions of better future. Since then - no major changes. Now we have 2010. Do you think, that 2020 will change something? (will I live for so long?) ;-)

[fjtorres]

KRJRS, to elaborate in broad terms:

HTML, RTF, and DOC are document formats. They exist to store/archive information in readily editable format. HTML has also been used as a publishing mediumm on the World-Wide-Web but thatwas not its designed intent which has led to a lot of issues and debates over the years. At its core, it still remains a lightweight version of SGML. XML, on the other hand was conceived and designed as an online publishing format which why most true ebook formats are based on it.

PDF and DJVU are electronic paper formats, essentially digital microfiche in concept. They store information with (generally) hard-wired, frozen formatting. Editing them is not a (generally) supported feature, printing mostly is.

FB2, ePub, LIT, eReader, docReader PDB, and Mobipocket are ebook formats. Intended for reading, not editing or printing. (Some) formatting is embedded but is not (generally) intended to be hardwired; reflow and end-user formatting are expected to overide the internal controls at render time.

An ebook is not the same same or as etext or an edocument or epaper; it is intended to be a mass publishing medium, not an archival medium, which is why most ebook formats are built off XML and other web standards. Some people do speak of documents in those alternate formats as "ebooks" but they are out of line with current usage and only muddying the waters which can lead to unfortunate confusion for those that don't fully research the subject.

As of today, the two dominant ebook formats are Amazon's Mobipocket format (thanks to consumer-level market share) and ePub (the annointed universal standard of all the major publishing houses) as implemented and interpreted by Adobe ADE. FB2 is a solid number three overall and regionally dominant for DRM-free publishing. LIT, docReader pdb, and eReader are still actively supported by many publishers and second-tier online bookstores (both with and without DRM) but they appear to be falling back into the ranks of legacy formats. That may change; Barnes and Noble, the current owner of eReader is still selling content using the format which is supported by the Nook and Jetbook lite ebook readers, and there are rumors that Microsoft is not giving up on LIT. But for now the bulk of ebook readers are built for either ePub or Mobi first and everything else second or third. Many go no further.

Modern ebook readers are intended for reading ebook formats. That they support non-ebook formats at all is a *bonus* feature above and beyond core requirements. The design parameters are skewed towards clarity of display, simplicity of use, and extreme battery life, not performance nor PC or PDA-like capabilities. Many are also handheld storefronts directly leading to online bookstores. They are NOT intended for hobbyists or corporate usage (like the Bother); they are intended for consumers of commercially published books (mostly fiction). To expect anything else is to be out of touch with the *commercial* reality of where the industry is headed. Sorry, but that is where the money lies.
As Marion Zimmer Bradley said "The world goes where it will not where we wish it to go." (more or less. )

Published content, not documents is what ebook readers are for.
Document readers are a separate product category (Brother has the most prominent one: http://japantechniche.com/2009/03/13...iewer-sv-100b/) that shares some traits with ebook readers.

Given the stated use pattern and desires, I have to agree that the Viliv would have, in fact, been a better tool for the mission. They are wonderful pocketable COMPUTERS and make decent ebook readers, though that is not what they are designed for.

The good news is that it should not be at all hard to find somebody looking for an ebook reader, not a pocket computer, and willing to buy a slightly used PB360.

Good luck finding a new home for your PB360.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by kacir

FB2 has all the tags for all the styles.
FB2 is an XML file, so it is very similar to HTML ...

Thanks for the info, kacir.

It's nearly 12 months since I got my first ereader (a Sony) and I've had to learn about so many new things (Calibre, HTML, CSS, epub, MSWord macros, Regex) in order to get the best out of it. Just as I thought I could start to relax, I find that I really ought to know more about FB2 and XML.

My poor old brain may melt! Still - "Use it or Lose it" as they say.

[krjrs]

@fjtorres - I didn't buy the PB360 to sell it. I encourage software developers, especially interested in useful things (and not necessarily commercial approaches) - to expand things. I don't care what the *commercial* reality expects from me. We - the "non-commercial humans" - do have the capability to change and influence the *reality* that we live in. It is time to wake up. Time of "tasty sheeps" is over. ;-)

shouldn't be the software development for ebook devices - shouldn't be better organized? for example in similar way as the rockbox did? that would help to change things.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by krjrs

@fjtorres - I didn't buy the PB360 to sell it. I encourage software developers, especially interested in useful things (and not necessarily commercial approaches) - to expand things. I don't care what the *commercial* reality expects from me. We - the "non-commercial humans" - do have the capability to change and influence the *reality* that we live in. It is time to wake up. Time of "tasty sheeps" is over. ;-)

shouldn't be the software development for ebook devices - shouldn't be better organized? for example in similar way as the rockbox did? that would help to change things.

Go ahead and submit a feature request at
http://code.google.com/p/fbreader-pockebook/issues/list

Or, even better, download a source code and hack a better solution. There is pretty good HTML support in FBReader, so support of ordered list shouldn't be that complicated.

Or contact GrayNM the developer of the unofficial port of fbreader here on Mobileread.

Or, go to this thread
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80469
and request a new feature. You can also try to persuade at least four other people to support your feature request. PocketBook representatives hang around this forum and they do listen to us.


e-pub is just a zip archive with more-or-less standard html files inside. Do try to convert your html files to epub.
Or export those html files to pdf. That will definitely work.