Adios, Sony!

[slayda]

Originally Posted by NatCh

As I said in another thread, it strikes me as a bit presumptuous to assume that a vendor is under some obligation to subsidize the upgrade of two-year-old hardware sold and purchased in good faith. I don't expect HP to offer me a trade-in on my (circa 1972) HP-35 calculator, for instance.

I figure that the almost 2 years of use I've gotten out of it in the meantime is worth something ... isn't it? Shouldn't I expect to pay for that use?

Frankly, I can still use it just as it is (and plan to! ) -- I just can't start using epub and reflowing PDF files on it is all. In other words, it does exactly what it did when I got it in the first place. And those of us who bought it evidently felt the price was fair at the time, and I rather doubt that we believed that the hardware would always be sufficient for any and all future advances ....

I don't understand how it's Sony's responsibility to pay me something for it just because there's a new model that will do more, and they couldn't see into the future well enough to build a product that would handle all future upgrade demands. Especially when, as you note, that hardware was pretty pricey to begin with.

I really, really wish that these new features were on my 500 myself, but they're not, and it looks like they can't be, but I decline to blame Sony for not predicting what couldn't be predicted in the first place.

I don't expect them to change their ways. As I said in another thread, how long before they abandon the 505 & leave it's users high & dry. Also it was less than 2 years when Sony abandoned the 500. I got mine in Sept. 06, less than 2 years ago & I got mine very soon after it was introduced. And your HP-35 was the top of the line for more than 2 years I think before HP introduced the 45. I have no faith in Sony continuing to support their customers based on their past performance. They used us a test subjects for their new product - pure & simple.

[acidzebra]

Originally Posted by slayda

how long before they abandon the 505 & leave it's users high & dry.

I don't get it, how are you "left high and dry"? Weren't the features of your device adequate when you bought it? Have they somehow degraded over time?

Your reader still does what it did before. When Sony leaves the 505 in the dust as I'm sure they will, it will still be a very decent bookreader - I enjoy using it. If some newer device comes out in two years or less, I might envy the new or better features it has a little, but my device will still perform the duties for which I bought it initially.

Seriously, how often does apple update the ipod line? Are older ipods somehow worthless after a new one comes out?

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by slayda

I don't expect them to change their ways. As I said in another thread, how long before they abandon the 505 & leave it's users high & dry. Also it was less than 2 years when Sony abandoned the 500. I got mine in Sept. 06, less than 2 years ago & I got mine very soon after it was introduced. And your HP-35 was the top of the line for more than 2 years I think before HP introduced the 45. I have no faith in Sony continuing to support their customers based on their past performance. They used us a test subjects for their new product - pure & simple.

I see what you're saying, slayda, and I understand the logic, I just don't find it convincing is all.

I never expected them to do any sort of hardware upgrade on the 500, unpaid or otherwise. If something had proved defective on it, that'd be different, but this is just a generational growth: the new generation is more capable than the last. That's the way I look at it.

In any case, I'm pleased with the performance I've gotten out of my 500, in fact if these upgrades hadn't come along, I expect I'd still be perfectly content with it, rather than drooling over a newer model. I figure we got what we paid for, and I doubt anybody seriously thought they were paying for perpetual upgrades to hardware, or to firmware for that matter. If they did ... they probably shouldn't be trusted with credit cards, if you know what I mean.

I understand that you're saying that (not quite) two years is too quick to be obsoleted, but I don't see it that way either: computer hardware development moves way too fast for me to expect that, and the Reader is a minor branch of that area after all. A two-year-old computer simply can't be made to do some of the things a new one can, but I don't expect HP or Dell or whoever to fix that for me.

A difference of perspective, I suppose.

[BettyE]

Originally Posted by NatCh

As I said in another thread, it strikes me as a bit presumptuous to assume that a vendor is under some obligation to subsidize the upgrade of two-year-old hardware sold and purchased in good faith. I don't expect HP to offer me a trade-in on my (circa 1972) HP-35 calculator, for instance.

I figure that the almost 2 years of use I've gotten out of it in the meantime is worth something ... isn't it? Shouldn't I expect to pay for that use?

Frankly, I can still use it just as it is (and plan to! ) -- I just can't start using epub and reflowing PDF files on it is all. In other words, it does exactly what it did when I got it in the first place. And those of us who bought it evidently felt the price was fair at the time, and I rather doubt that we believed that the hardware would always be sufficient for any and all future advances ....

I don't understand how it's Sony's responsibility to pay me something for it just because there's a new model that will do more, and they couldn't see into the future well enough to build a product that would handle all future upgrade demands. Especially when, as you note, that hardware was pretty pricey to begin with.

I really, really wish that these new features were on my 500 myself, but they're not, and it looks like they can't be, but I decline to blame Sony for not predicting what couldn't be predicted in the first place.

Nat -

I didn't think it is an obligation or a responsibility of Sony at all. It is a customer service issue. I think they need to make their decision based on business. In other words, weigh the value of losing future book purchases against a discount on a traded-in PRS 500. It could be something as little as $50 off on a trade-in to a PRS 505, if that fits their business model.

I agree I got use of the PRS 500 over the two years, so it is not as if there was no value to the PRS 500. I was not talking about a total trade-in item for item. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

They may not take a 37 year old calculator but if you go to HP's web site and type "trade-in", you can see lots of possiblities for trade-ins. They will even take competitors' products.

Regards -

Betty

[dordale]

I'm with Natch on this one.

Right now, I'm lucky enough to have a 505 and certainly appreciate the updated firmware. But when I bought the 505, I bought it for what it could do out of the box, not with any future expectations.

I have been caught in the no upgrades for your device with my Apple iPod, and I'm still a loyal iPod user. I just know that I can't take advantage of all the neat features that owners of newer iPods can. Still, my iPod hasn't lost any features--it still does everything it did when I purchased it. And I've gotten plenty of use out of it.

Unless something better comes along (more features I'm interested in, etc), I'll probably buy another iPod or another Sony reader when my current ones die.

dordale

[sam1am]

Originally Posted by slayda

So instead they make their first customers eat the cost if they want to upgrade. I, for one, will not ever buy another Sony product because of this. We supported them by buying a new, rather expensive, untried product and for our support (which BTW showed the product to be viable) they turn around ad screw us. Bad, bad business decision.

Wow - you did Sony such a favor by buying the prs500. They really are indebted to you.

I bought a 2003 Subaru WRX, but then Subaru came out with a 2004 with a bigger engine and a better look. I really expected they would come through for us early adopters and give us a free new engine or at least let us have some new headlights. Not even a peep from Subaru. Not even a car computer firmware upgrade for us early adopters. They really left us in the dust.

I, for one, will never buy a Subaru again.

Seriously, get over yourself, sell your PRS500 on ebay, and upgrade if epub support is so important to you. If you really expect Sony to support a 2-gen old device in accordance with your technically-infeasible demands than you are living in a version of reality I am not familiar with.

Don't limit your hate and boycott to Sony - expand out to every single other company in the entire world, because they would all do the same thing. If you don't feel like you got what you expected from the PRS500 when you bought it, you should have taken it back.

[NatCh]

<mod hat>

Easy now, folks -- we can disagree and discuss the point without getting confrontational about it.

</mod hat>

[RickyMaveety]

Yeah .... I don't have a Sony, but two years useful life is about all I expect from any computer equipment anymore. And, that's true no matter who makes it.

Now, of couse, the 500 is still quite useful. I mean, it still reads ebooks and still does what it did when you got it. It's just not bleeding edge anymore. They are still selling books in the lrf format ... yes?? Or are they switching to something the 500 won't read??

That would be the only thing that would bother me .... if I purchased a particular ebook reader and then wasn't able to obtain (or create) any books in that format anymore. That .... well, that would grind my gears no end.

But, if you want the latest and greatest in the technology marketplace these days ... get used to buying new every other year. because ther never will be a time when you can just glide along ... in fact, the turnover time is probably going to start getting shorter ....

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by slayda

I don't expect them to change their ways. As I said in another thread, how long before they abandon the 505 & leave it's users high & dry. Also it was less than 2 years when Sony abandoned the 500. I got mine in Sept. 06, less than 2 years ago & I got mine very soon after it was introduced. And your HP-35 was the top of the line for more than 2 years I think before HP introduced the 45. I have no faith in Sony continuing to support their customers based on their past performance. They used us a test subjects for their new product - pure & simple.

The reason for no ePub support for the 500 is because the hardware cannot handle it. If the 500 could handle it, Sony would have supported it on the 500. Sony is not leaving the 500 users "high and dry" on purpose. It's that the hardware will not run the software. Sony would be cutting their throats by saying "yes the 500 can do it, but we don't care".

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by sam1am

I bought a 2003 Subaru WRX, but then Subaru came out with a 2004 with a bigger engine and a better look. I really expected they would come through for us early adopters and give us a free new engine or at least let us have some new headlights. Not even a peep from Subaru. Not even a car computer firmware upgrade for us early adopters. They really left us in the dust.

We recently purchased a certified pre-owned 2003 Nissan Sentra and guess what we got for it recently? We got a firmware upgrade for the computer.

[=X=]

You know PRS-500 users really haven't been left behind. The sony store is still going to sell BeBB books and MobileRead is still going to produce LRF books. And converting from LIT/MOBI to LRF is still a viable route.

Then only real value the Firmware updgrad provided was Adobe Security support for either PDF/ePub and the firmware itself so we can start creating more feature rich hacks.

ePub support and reflowable PDF I think are just hype, at least for me. I still plan on sticking with buying MOBI since it has great support. The reflowable PDF looks terrible. And the default PDF looks as bad as it did without the upgrade (still a gray background).


PRS-500 users might be feeling left out, but they are not left behind. There is still years of usage for those devices.

=X=

[slayda]

OK everybody, I hear you. Natch how many SW upgrades did you get on the 500? Yes it still does the same stuff. Without the current upgrades the 505 still does the same stuff. Yes maybe the 500 can not be upgraded to read epub due to HW but they could upgrade the SW so that RTF could show images & TOC. But they did not consider the 500 & all who bought it to be worth the trouble. We were just guinea pigs for them to test the market.

I don't resent not getting a hardware upgrade but there are a lot of places that continue to provide FREE SW upgrades for years after your purchase.

And if they sold the 500 as the 2006 model with the explicit or implicit idea that there would be a 2007 and 2008 HW modification that would not be backward compatible then I would expect it. However they are providing FREE upgrades to the 505 and as I have said they have abandoned the 500. NO MORE UPGRADES! So are 505 owners somehow more worthy than 500 owners?

Y'all get off my back about your cars and other things. I bet your 2004 Suburu can use the same gas as your 2003, etc. You're talking oranges & apples there.

And yes there are some SW companies that do not upgrade for free or even for a reduced price. I tend to stay away from those as well. This is not the first time I got burnt with Sony's business practices. This is just one time too many. So excuse the rant & we can all get on with our lives.

I am quite happy with my Cybook Gen3 that I have received 2 free SW upgrades for. Thank you very much.

[PHugger]

Originally Posted by slayda

However they are providing FREE upgrades to the 505 and as I have said they have abandoned the 500. NO MORE UPGRADES! So are 505 owners somehow more worthy than 500 owners?

I'm not sure I want to answer your question...... (c8
I was really intrigued by the Sony 500 when it first came out and I carefully studied it. I really wanted one, but decided it had enough negatives to hold off and wait for the next version (never buy v1). When the 505 came out I also checked it out carefully and decided that it was what I wanted. If I hadn't liked what I saw, I'd still be waiting (no Kindle for me). You chose the 500 because you wanted it. If you chose it because you thought Sony would offer you lifetime hardware or firmware upgrades, you were mistaken. Personally Sony has done alright by me. They replaced my 505 when the screen broke. I'm glad that they just upgraded my 505's firmware and now offer more formats, but that wasn't why I bought it. I bought it to read books on and it still does this nearly perfectly IMHO. I don't have a big need at this time for these new features, but I may use them someday. If your 500 no longer meets your needs, by all means upgrade - sell the old and buy the new. If you have an investment in Sony eBooks, it would be smart to stick with Sony or sell them with the reader. You could even give it as a gift to someone you love and then reward yourself for being such a nice person! This is exactly what I'd do if the Sony PRS-600 is really cool (I want wifi and RSS support).

Don't let the good fortune of others steal your joy,
PCH

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by slayda

NatCh how many SW upgrades did you get on the 500?

I think it was 2, but it may have been 3. I'm pretty sure it was 2.

Originally Posted by slayda

Yes it still does the same stuff. Without the current upgrades the 505 still does the same stuff. Yes maybe the 500 can not be upgraded to read epub due to HW but they could upgrade the SW so that RTF could show images & TOC. But they did not consider the 500 & all who bought it to be worth the trouble. We were just guinea pigs for them to test the market.

Heh, yeah, I'd still like the images in RTF, myself.

I agree that you have a point, slayda, it's a valid one too. I just don't interpret it the same way you do, that's all. And there's nothing wrong with that -- we're allowed to disagree and all (so long as we do it politely, of course, which you certainly have, and I hope I have - I've tried to anyway ).

[sam1am]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

We recently purchased a certified pre-owned 2003 Nissan Sentra and guess what we got for it recently? We got a firmware upgrade for the computer.

I think you're missing the point. Did your Sentra firmware magically give you new hardware that you car never had in the first place? No, I didn't think so.