Maybe Not The End

[Poppaea]

Nah, I saw your comment about the silicone.

It has less features.

- no landscape
- no decent PDF handling
- no audio
- no language dictionaries

+ wifi
That's it.

[carpetmojo]

Poppy (sorry to be so familiar) - first, I agree.

Secondly - that cheetah has a very well-fed, self-satisfied, too full up to move appearance.

Please don't say the Law of the Jungle has prevailed ?

[Poppaea]

Nah, she is just watching Tarzan doing that rope to rope move of his and admires his muscles

[Prestidigitweeze]

My point was about hardware features. I've said that three times so far.

With the exception of audio, the features you've listed have to do with software, not hardware.

Besides which, your list, which factors in software, leaves out certain of the Simple Touch's advantages. Font choices, for example. The effect of draft N on software choices for another, which is faster than the Wifi on my 950 and impacts the structure of the ST's UI as well as hardware speed.

I don't expect to be web surfing with any eReader, but those who must will clearly find the experience faster on the ST -- not only in terms of specs, but also given what I experienced in B&N. I tried my 950 and Kindle there as well.

And I've already addressed your dictionary feature with the mention of a rooted Android reader. Too early to tell what the Simple Touch will do in that regard.

[SCION]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

...
No one seems to have noticed my comment about the Nook's silicone-case-grade body. I'm curious what those who have handled the Simple Touch have to say about it. I worry that the thing will get flimsier and dingier over time, as my silicone cases for my smartphones always do. The finish on those is remarkably similar to the Simple Touch's...

Most likely it will degrade over time. Over how long a period of time, I don't know. I use mine with a cover, so it's not a concern. Given its low price, I wouldn't be ticked off if signs of wear and tear show up after a couple of years.

[porkupan]

Yes, WiFi is an important feature. Being a Sony Reader fan, this is the feature I would like most in the next generation Sony Reader. In fact, I am 99% sure all next gen Sony Readers will be WiFi enabled. That is if there is the next gen.

Why is WiFi important? It is important because the ideas about something to read often come to me in social settings. At work, in a coffee house, in a book store, while talking to people. To make myself a note I usually edit a draft gmail message on my Android phone. If I owned a network enabled reader it could have been an instant purchase. Amazon knows all there is to know about impulse purchases - they had their kindles network enabled from the very beginning.

It's hard to compare nooks to Sony, both have important advantages. It is only the beginning of the "season", but at the moment nook ST has more important advantages. What's so important? Android is so important! There are already FBReader, Cool Reader, Nomad Reader, Opera browser, and many games running on rooted ST.

Seriously, are there software advantages to the Sony Readers? Dictionaries? Even after 4 years of touch editions we still cannot add a custom dictionary to a Sony Reader. Several dictionary systems are supported on Android. I don't know if any have already been ported onto ST. Many Android applications don't even require any porting - they just run! The Sony PDF viewer is somewhat better at this time (cropping, page splitting, contrast settings), but the PDF viewing engine in both Sony and nook (and kindle) are Adobe's. Ability to change font and more size options on nook make it somewhat more advanced. Landscape mode in Sony Readers (except 9xx, which has the 2-column mode) is not very usable because of weird way of splitting pages. It is still better than no landscape mode at all, of course.

Hardware? Well, Sony is still building a better quality enclosure, but many people like side paging buttons, and Sony hasn't provided those since 505. Sony's enclosures have been getting progressively cheaper made and less sturdy - from 500 down to x50. Chances are the next gen enclosures will continue the slide towards less expensive materials.

Originally Posted by Poppaea

Americans want less features for less money, Europeans pay more for more features. Where is Sonys market? In the US, where readers are cheap because they are tied to big bookstores (Amazon & BN)? Or in the rest of the world, where there is no bookstore tying, but a demand for premium hardware?

Absolute rubbish about Americans wanting fewer features, and the Europeans wanting more. Everyone wants more! Some people are willing to pay more (while others are not - even in Europe!). I happen to believe that Americans do get more at this time. And they will continue to be getting even more. We will probably see the new kindles soon, and hopefully the new Sony Readers.

[Tony1988]

I knid of like the fact you can get some Sonys without wifi or any browser of any sort Porkupan. (though people have the option of the 950 right now.) Dont care for Android so I hope that doesnt happen. WHat the Sony comes with right out of thew box is fine by me for reading books.

I do believe that the probably all the next Sonys will have wfi access. I also agree that the Sonys will most likely be all plastic without a Stylus but maybe some option candy like fonts etc. So there will be some give and take I think on the next editions.

[Poppaea]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

My point was about hardware features. I've said that three times so far.

And I've already addressed your dictionary feature with the mention of a rooted Android reader. Too early to tell what the Simple Touch will do in that regard.

Sorry I was tired and did not pay the due attention. Just didn't see it.

All this Android talk, I don't get it. This is if the Nook is rooted. Not about features inherent in the device. So if people insist about talking what one can do with an artificially altered device and not about what it is able to do when one buys it, we will have to compare PRS+ with the rooted Nook.

But the devices are not delivered with PRS+ or rooted. I for one am not savvy enough to take the risk of rooting and there are millions of users who don't even know about it or are not techy enough to even try.

So I would be grateful if we discussed either tampered with or straight out of the box.

[Prestidigitweeze]

It was hard for me to look at this thread again because I saw that the last post was by you, Poppaea, and I really hate fighting with you.

And of course I have no problem discussing the PRS+ versus the rooted ST.

A few reasons for talking about Android: the openness of it, Google's interest in perfecting it, and the vast market of applications and utilities for it, all of which make rooting more promising than flashing PRS+ (as good as it might be, particularly for people who read languages not covered even by Sony's dictionaries).

Part of the reason the idea excites me is that I own a rooted Android phone and rooting it killed many of the bugs and limitations I'd thought were intrinsic to the device itself.

The thing that does make my discussion of the rooted ST premature, however, is the fact that no one has actually tried it.

A lot of great PDF-reading apps are available in the Android Market, but we don't know how or even if they'd run on the ST. What we do know is that two reviewers have reported that PDF docs caused their STs to freeze and require a restart. Until someone else reports otherwise, or until B&N addresses the issue with an update, I have no reason to assume third-party software would handle PDFs any more stably than the software with which the ST shipped.

In terms of pure gear lust, I feel a powerful urge to run out and pick up a Nook ST. But in terms of ultimate usefulness, the PRS-950 does far more that I need from day to day than the ST. PDFs are important, zoom and readable PDF text reflow is important, landscape is important, the dictionaries are important, durability is important and that extra inch means more in terms of usefulness than seems apparent in abstract speculation. In terms of PDF readability, that one inch is everything.

[CommonReader]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

The effect of draft N on software choices for another, which is faster than the Wifi on my 950 and impacts the structure of the ST's UI as well as hardware speed.

Are you watching HDTV on your reader? I doubt that any normal reader is even able to exhaust the bandwith provided by g.


Free Wifi is much less common in Europe than in the US, even though hotels are provideng it at an increasing rate. For true mobility you need something like HSDPA. Probably something like is only viable economically with a device that is tied to a shop like the Kindle.

At home there is usually some computer available (unless being hogged by my wife and my daughter) so that simply ataching the reader via usb for a moment isn't an issue.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by CommonReader

Are you watching HDTV on your reader? I doubt that any normal reader is even able to exhaust the bandwith provided by g.

The reason draft N's relevant is because the unofficial browser for the ST seems to be speedier than that of any Kindle or Sony reader I've used to date. It's actually useful as well as usable.

This impacts on the usability of the UI itself, as tasks that require an internet connection are as fast as the screen and processor will allow, and a fair number of interactions on the ST do involve said connection.

Again: I tend to use my Epic, not my eReaders, for browsing. But it's clear that a fair number of users do use their readers that way.

The addition of Draft N to the PSP NGP will make a difference for users of that device as well -- my PSP 2000 is frustratingly slow in that respect. When it comes to handhelds, every little speed bump helps.

[CommonReader]

Draft N doesn't make a difference to web browsing. Unless you have an extremely fast internet connection your connection will usually be the bottleneck rather than your home network. Draft n is usually required when you have to transmit a very high data volume as with HDTV.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by CommonReader

Draft N doesn't make a difference to web browsing. Unless you have an extremely fast internet connection your connection will usually be the bottleneck rather than your home network. Draft n is usually required when you have to transmit a very high data volume as with HDTV.

Perhaps that's true where you live, but in the States, draft N can have a demonstrable effect on browser speed. When I installed a draft N card in my netbook, the difference was immediate and clear. You could argue it's the improved card in general and not that specific feature, but I disagree, having been in roomsful of laptop users. The ones who couldn't maintain reliable connections usually had older cards restricted to b and g.

This isn't abstract speculation. The majority of routers in the cities I frequent are draft N and the difference in speed is impressive, which is why B&N implemented it.

[CommonReader]

I don't want to turn this into pedantic and nerdy bickering about data transfer rates of wlan standards. You may very well experience a much better performance with an N-draft card. This may be rather down to the fact that Draft N can operate in the 5 Ghz band that is less prone to interference than the 2.4 Ghz band that is used by g. As such the g standard offers more than sufficient transfer rates for any reader.
In my personal experience the one computer I do have that uses Draft N is easily the one with the least reliable connection. This is down to the deficiencies of the specific device, though.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by CommonReader

In my personal experience the one computer I do have that uses Draft N is easily the one with the least reliable connection. This is down to the deficiencies of the specific device, though.

I appreciate your not wanting to bicker about this, but then why dog me over four posts about the least important spec of a given reader -- the advantages to which I've observed consistently over time privately and in public, discussed with tons of users, and about which there's corroboration all over the net?

Thinking about it, I realized I own seven Wifi devices as well as a Draft N router. Four out of seven have Draft N and the three that don't are conspicuously less reliable -- which goes along with the progress curve of Wifi cards in general, the situations I've seen publicly, friends' experience and the internet conversations I've participated in on laptop customization forums. Very few public routers in NYC are less than 5ghz at this point.

The first thing people tend to do when they buy a netbook is increase the memory and swap the wifi card. I've never heard of anyone choosing non-Draft N, and only the NF310 has (gimped) HD features. Have a look at various discussions on sammynetbook.com and you'll see what I mean.

Edit: One other thing: Draft N was originally implemented in Apple laptops. In my years of spending entire days writing in netcafes, I've yet to see a single Apple laptop user experience Wifi issues barring the router's being reset. When the rest of us go down, those bloody things stay connected. If it isn't down to the card, then why are MacBook [____]s so reliable in that one specific way?

Have a look at this chart, which shows improvements in range as well as data rates, and tell me why Draft N wouldn't have a positive effect on the ST's Wifi speed and consistency. As I said, the ST's faster processor is probably a factor as well.